Greatest ever Swan?

[stevoswan]

On John Pitura, when he was at South he was possibly the best player I have ever seen in the Red and White. Played off half back and just had the ball on a string with a long left boot.

The same thing happened to him at Richmond as what happened to Capper when he went to the Bears. The other players resented his big salary and played around him rather than use him. In Pitura's case there, there was also a lot of resentment around the fact that the club had cleared out three popular and well-loved players, especially "The Whale" who the other players loved. The same thing happened at Essendon when they cleared out heart-and-soul-of-the-club Stephen Carey and another solid clubman in Peter Bradbury to bring in the flashy Mike Richardson from the Pies and Geoff Raines from Richmond.

BTW at the time, South only had a couple of thousand members and the Richmond board actually debated buying enough South memberships the take over the club and simply clear Pitura to the Tigers.

I remember not wanting to part with Pitura.....he was a star and he was ours. I hated Richmond back then so it made it all the worse. While the pain of losing him was fairly quickly replaced by joy from the three players we got, ultimately it was tragic to see Pitura's glittering career just waste away after that ill fated move and under those circumstances. I hated Richmond even more after that.....

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Perhaps not the greatest of all time, but certainly worth a mention Dinny McKay.

Club captain, best player in the competition and certainly the first superstar forward of all time.

He kicked an utterly impossible 49 goals (easily equivalent of the ton these days) in the first of South Melbourne's three-in-a-row premiership run.

He was later wooed by Richmond, where he played for 2 years, before returning to South for the inaugural VFL season. He died of a burst appendix four days after the last game of the season.

My avatar is a picture of the man in the Swans original jumper.

[bloodspirit]

Perhaps not the greatest of all time, but certainly worth a mention Dinny McKay.

Club captain, best player in the competition and certainly the first superstar forward of all time.

He kicked an utterly impossible 49 goals (easily equivalent of the ton these days) in the first of South Melbourne's three-in-a-row premiership run.

He was later wooed by Richmond, where he played for 2 years, before returning to South for the inaugural VFL season. He died of a burst appendix four days after the last game of the season.

My avatar is a picture of the man in the Swans original jumper.

Great pick-up, RnR! Didn't even get named in our 'Team of the Century' - no doubt because he was from the previous century. Just looking at his wikipedia entry I see he kicked our first goal in the inaugural VFL season (1897). He died later the same year following peritonitis secondary to a burst appendix aged just 29 years and leaving behind a widow and two children: Dinny McKay - Wikipedia. First I've ever heard of him so thank you so much for sharing. I'm enjoying learning more about the club and our history.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Son of a @#$%^&* - it's all in Wikipedia!
All of a sudden I feel so superfluous

[Bloods05]

The late Fred Goldsmith is one of the few full backs to win a Brownlow. One of many we recruited from Spotswood IIRC

I may be wrong but actually I think he's the only one.

[bloodspirit]

Son of a @#$%^&* - it's all in Wikipedia!
All of a sudden I feel so superfluous

Not at all! We (well, I, but I suspect I'm in good company) wouldn't have even known to look for him if it weren't for you.

[bloodspirit]

Incidentally, we have named many of the players that were in our team of the century. Here are a few that haven't rated a mention yet - can anyone say anything about them?

Vic Belcher - the only player apart from Goodes to have one two flags with the Swans
Bill Faul - I've never heard of him but he's named in the backline. Part of the Foreign Legion, played in our 1933 flag.
Tony Morwood - I've heard the name. Played in the 80s.
Bill Williams (1945-1951 - lived until 2016), Stevie Wright, Mark Bayes (1985-1998), Daryn Creswell (1992-2003), Harry Clark and Mark Tandy (played in our second flag) - I know nothing or next to about these guys although I've heard of the more recent ones (Bayes & Cressa)

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Tony Morwood - I've heard the name. Played in the 80s.

He did indeed, he was a superb player, elusive, fair, brilliant mark - a joy to watch. Both his brothers were got their starts with us too, but only Tony resisted the lure of the Victorian clubs. Last I heard he was working for the Swans in Melbourne. I look at Heywood and hope (see "great expectations" thread)

I showed my then girlfriend the film of Daryn Creswell hammering his knee cap back into place while on the field. It almost made her vomit at the time, but she recovered and shares my love of things red and white. His life post swans was extremely rocky, with a gambling addiction and a criminal conviction - if memory serves.

[liz]

Incidentally, we have named many of the players that were in our team of the century. Here are a few that haven't rated a mention yet - can anyone say anything about them?

Vic Belcher - the only player apart from Goodes to have one two flags with the Swans

I think ROK, LRT and Jude might be somewhat taken aback to learn that.

[bloodspirit]

I think ROK, LRT and Jude might be somewhat taken aback to learn that.

Errr, yes. Good point. But apart from ROK, LRT, Jude and Goodes! I suspect also isn't including our VFA flags in the 1880s.

[goswannies]

He did indeed, he was a superb player, elusive, fair, brilliant mark - a joy to watch. Both his brothers were got their starts with us too, but only Tony resisted the lure of the Victorian clubs. Last I heard he was working for the Swans in Melbourne. I look at Heywood and hope (see "great expectations" thread)

I think Tony’s time with the Swans Melbourne office might have ended at the end of last season.

And while Paul was lured to StKilda, Doc Edelsten did entice him back ... only for Paul to be cut because of salary cap issues - he finished up with Shane at Collingwood

[Mr Magoo]

Saw last night on fox footy they had a replay of the VIC v SA state of origin match from 1987 - Vic forward line was Lockett, Brereton and Ablett. Lockett played last quarter in the ruck and was impressive but it got onto a conversation with my boys about players from the past.

Both thought that considering these guys were the "best of the best" the skill level was pretty average and the thuggery pretty high. The debate was then centred around how these guys would compete in todays game. I had one boy saying that basically on a straight out comparison , very few of these players would even get picked at an AFL club. We then debated about whether under the same conditions (ie same training , lifestyle , sports science etc) it would lift the players of that era to the same level as the best today or whether the players were the best because they came from a smaller demographic , with less scientific selection criteria and therefore they still wouldnt compete in todays game. Interesting conversation and hard one to solve but the more I watch older games the more you begin to question how much weighting you should place on a dominant player from way back against a very good player today when choosing the "best ever" or a"team of the century".

[stevoswan]

Saw last night on fox footy they had a replay of the VIC v SA state of origin match from 1987 - Vic forward line was Lockett, Brereton and Ablett. Lockett played last quarter in the ruck and was impressive but it got onto a conversation with my boys about players from the past.

Both thought that considering these guys were the "best of the best" the skill level was pretty average and the thuggery pretty high. The debate was then centred around how these guys would compete in todays game. I had one boy saying that basically on a straight out comparison , very few of these players would even get picked at an AFL club. We then debated about whether under the same conditions (ie same training , lifestyle , sports science etc) it would lift the players of that era to the same level as the best today or whether the players were the best because they came from a smaller demographic , with less scientific selection criteria and therefore they still wouldnt compete in todays game. Interesting conversation and hard one to solve but the more I watch older games the more you begin to question how much weighting you should place on a dominant player from way back against a very good player today when choosing the "best ever" or a"team of the century".

That's basically an 'ageist' point of view.....and who's surprised that the young of today are thinking that way? I actually believe if the best players from past era's were in today's professional environments and being coached to today's game plans.....they would compete favourably with most current teams. The key factor at play here is evolving game plans and match style.....and in those days, game plans were more defensive and possession based and made the players look sluggish and less attacking......and less skillful. They weren't.....

[Nico]

Saw last night on fox footy they had a replay of the VIC v SA state of origin match from 1987 - Vic forward line was Lockett, Brereton and Ablett. Lockett played last quarter in the ruck and was impressive but it got onto a conversation with my boys about players from the past.

Both thought that considering these guys were the "best of the best" the skill level was pretty average and the thuggery pretty high. The debate was then centred around how these guys would compete in todays game. I had one boy saying that basically on a straight out comparison , very few of these players would even get picked at an AFL club. We then debated about whether under the same conditions (ie same training , lifestyle , sports science etc) it would lift the players of that era to the same level as the best today or whether the players were the best because they came from a smaller demographic , with less scientific selection criteria and therefore they still wouldnt compete in todays game. Interesting conversation and hard one to solve but the more I watch older games the more you begin to question how much weighting you should place on a dominant player from way back against a very good player today when choosing the "best ever" or a"team of the century".

Mathews would be rubbed out for most of his career in today's world. Biggest thug in the history of the game. Makes Jack Dyer look like a choir boy.

[Velour&Ruffles]

Saw last night on fox footy they had a replay of the VIC v SA state of origin match from 1987 - Vic forward line was Lockett, Brereton and Ablett. Lockett played last quarter in the ruck and was impressive but it got onto a conversation with my boys about players from the past.

Both thought that considering these guys were the "best of the best" the skill level was pretty average and the thuggery pretty high. The debate was then centred around how these guys would compete in todays game. I had one boy saying that basically on a straight out comparison , very few of these players would even get picked at an AFL club. We then debated about whether under the same conditions (ie same training , lifestyle , sports science etc) it would lift the players of that era to the same level as the best today or whether the players were the best because they came from a smaller demographic , with less scientific selection criteria and therefore they still wouldnt compete in todays game. Interesting conversation and hard one to solve but the more I watch older games the more you begin to question how much weighting you should place on a dominant player from way back against a very good player today when choosing the "best ever" or a"team of the century".

Lockett's goal kicking, and his field kicking when called on, was absolutely sensational - far superior to the vast majority of players now. He'd still walk into any .... make that every ... team.