Greatest ever Swan?

[Matty10]

I think there is definitely continuity prior to 1867. The 1866 team looks to me like it was absorbed into the club that formed in 1867 - the 1867 club's president and several notable players were a part of the 1866 Emerald Hill teams.

I wonder if some clubs in that era just ran on a year to year basis. It does make dating a foundation point quite difficult. However, it is also interesting that Geelong date themselves from 1859, yet a meeting is held in 1860 that deliberates on the ‘defunct’ club from the previous year and then elects to create a new entity. The continuity is clearly in question here but is ignored, I imagine, in order to enhance the length of the club’s history. The Swans, it seems, is taking a different approach (and one that, in some respects, limits the history of the club).

[bloodspirit]

And then in 1869 it plays as Albert Park, after a preseason meeting where the partisans in favour of the name South Melbourne and Emerald Hill fought a nill all draw that resulted in the change of name to Albert Park.

I think there is definitely continuity prior to 1867. The 1866 team looks to me like it was absorbed into the club that formed in 1867 - the 1867 club's president and several notable players were a part of the 1866 Emerald Hill teams.

Further back information get's scarcer and scarcer. things get a bit hard to interpret, but I'm confident taking the original Emerald Hill club back to 1863 - Rob Hess book "A National Game" claims 1860. Which is remarkable given the famous Scotch v's Grammar game only happended in 1858.

I wonder if some clubs in that era just ran on a year to year basis. It does make dating a foundation point quite difficult. However, it is also interesting that Geelong date themselves from 1859, yet a meeting is held in 1860 that deliberates on the ‘defunct’ club from the previous year and then elects to create a new entity. The continuity is clearly in question here but is ignored, I imagine, in order to enhance the length of the club’s history. The Swans, it seems, is taking a different approach (and one that, in some respects, limits the history of the club).

Can you direct us to the source materials that you are basing your opinions on? If there are links, please post them. If you are basing your opinions on books or other materials that are not available online can you reference them? It may help the rest of us understand the lay of the land and sort out our own opinions, or possibly shed some light by offering a different point of view.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

And then in 1869 it plays as Albert Park, after a preseason meeting where the partisans in favour of the name South Melbourne and Emerald Hill fought a nill all draw that resulted in the change of name to Albert Park.

2 dfferent contemporary versions of the 1869 name change meeting, 1 from the Argus (hilarious), another from the Australasian
01 May 1869 - SATURDAY, MAY 1, 1869. - Trove
01 May 1869 - FOOTBALL. - Trove

I think there is definitely continuity prior to 1867. The 1866 team looks to me like it was absorbed into the club that formed in 1867 - the 1867 club's president and several notable players were a part of the 1866 Emerald Hill teams.

Continuity between Emerald Hill, South Melbourne and Albert Park
1866 An Emerald Hill team
16 Jun 1866 - FOOTBALL. - Trove
1867 A South Melbourne team
24 Aug 1867 - FOOTBALL MATCHES. - Trove
1868 An Emerald Hill team
13 Jun 1868 - FOOTBALL. - Trove
1869 Albert Park club office bearers
See above accounts of the 1869 meeting
1870 An Albert Park team
11 Jul 1870 - FOOTBALL. - Trove

Further back information get's scarcer and scarcer. things get a bit hard to interpret, but I'm confident taking the original Emerald Hill club back to 1863 - Rob Hess book "A National Game" claims 1860. Which is remarkable given the famous Scotch v's Grammar game only happended in 1858.

3 references to Emerald Hill playing games from the Argus in 1863
27 Jun 1863 - SATURDAY, JUNE 27, 1863. - Trove
11 Jul 1863 - SATURDAY, JULY 11, 1868. - Trove
13 Jun 1863 - SATURDAY, JUNE 13, 1863. - Trove

That'll have to do you for now, I'm supposed to be writing a submission on imprint rationalisation (very depressing).

[bloodspirit]

Thank you! Sorry to drag you away from the task at hand. Happy submitting (whether you're for or against rationalisation). ????

[bloodspirit]

The Bloods - Leaving South Melbourne, Episode 1 (sydneyswans.com.au)

The first episode in a series about the club's history. This episode is an illuminating insight to the club's relocation. There are some great details like Silvio Foschini describing his match day routine commuting from Melbourne to play in Sydney. It's also remarkable to think how the players back then would have to back up and go to work the day after the match etc. Another colourful detail was Tony Morwood describing how when a player was called up from the reserves (the reserves were based in Melbourne) the senior playing group wouldn't meet them until match day and would only then learn who the player was - whether they were tall or short, or right or left footed etc.

[KTigers]

I can only talk about the Sydney era as I never saw Sth Melbourne play, but I would say ;
1. Lockett
2. Goodes
3. Kelly
4. Kennedy
5. Franklin
(2 to 5 were/are really good for a really long time) and Plugger is probably the best player in the history of the game.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

The Bloods - Leaving South Melbourne, Episode 1 (sydneyswans.com.au)

The first episode in a series about the club's history. This episode is an illuminating insight to the club's relocation. There are some great details like Silvio Foschini describing his match day routine commuting from Melbourne to play in Sydney. It's also remarkable to think how the players back then would have to back up and go to work the day after the match etc. Another colourful detail was Tony Morwood describing how when a player was called up from the reserves (the reserves were based in Melbourne) the senior playing group wouldn't meet them until match day and would only then learn who the player was - whether they were tall or short, or right or left footed etc.

One notable omission from episode 1 is the mile high brawl on the trip to Manila. It seems to have been glossed out. The story I heard is that Peter Morrison and Kevin Goss were at the centre of it, and it ended both their careers at the Swans.

[Mark26]

One notable omission from episode 1 is the mile high brawl on the trip to Manila. It seems to have been glossed out. The story I heard is that Peter Morrison and Kevin Goss were at the centre of it, and it ended both their careers at the Swans.

The thing that's stuck with me from listening to the first episode was the emotional angst among every invested party: players, coaches, supporters et al. The sense of abandonment or dislocation for those who had / have South Melbourne in their blood was visceral. For whatever reason, I never noticed it, nor entertained what it must have been like to have the footy club you're so passionate about, be relocated. It's certainly creating a sense of empathy and makes me face the answer to the question, what would it be like if my beloved Swans had to move again?

This is coming from someone late to game. The first match I watched was in 1996, when Plugger kicked that behind over the Bombers. I'm looking forward to the next episodes!

[bloodspirit]

One notable omission from episode 1 is the mile high brawl on the trip to Manila. It seems to have been glossed out. The story I heard is that Peter Morrison and Kevin Goss were at the centre of it, and it ended both their careers at the Swans.

I saw this video about the relocation a while back: Saving South - YouTube. It references the 'scuffle' on the plane with one of the players who wanted to go to Sydney turning on Peter Morrison who, according to John Rantall, had a foot in both camps. Bernie Evans intervened. And then apparently so did Kevin Goss - who invited the unnamed first player to step outside [of the plane!] to sort things out.

[dejavoodoo44]

I saw this video about the relocation a while back: Saving South - YouTube. It references the 'scuffle' on the plane with one of the players who wanted to go to Sydney turning on Peter Morrison who, according to John Rantall, had a foot in both camps. Bernie Evans intervened. And then apparently so did Kevin Goss - who invited the unnamed first player to step outside [of the plane!] to sort things out.

Perhaps he had better skydiving skills? I wonder if there's ever been a fist fight while parachuting?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

And then apparently so did Kevin Goss - who invited the unnamed first player to step outside [of the plane!] to sort things out.

ROFL!!
Thanks I needed that - mind you it says all you need to know about the Goss'

[stevoswan]

One notable omission from episode 1 is the mile high brawl on the trip to Manila. It seems to have been glossed out. The story I heard is that Peter Morrison and Kevin Goss were at the centre of it, and it ended both their careers at the Swans.

This little doco, "Saving South" which was a 'student project' by Swans fan John Holdsworth is excellent. Interviews with all the major players in the saga and also a bit more about the "Thriller on the way to Manilla" at around the 10:23 mark.....but the whole thing is worth watching. Amazing our club survived it all.

Saving South - YouTube

Oh, I now see bloodspirit has already referenced this film. Well done!

[0918330512]

A statement made recently got me thinking. If a greatest Swans side was to be re-selected (the Swans team of the century being named in 2003), who in the last 18 years would make the side and who might they displace?

This is the most recent team of the century from 2003

B: John Rantall, John Heriot, Vic Belcher
H/B: Bill Faul, Ron Clegg, Dennis Carroll
C: David Murphy, Greg Williams, Herb Matthews
H/F: Tony Morwood, Laurie Nash, Gerard Healy
F: Bob Pratt, Tony Lockett, Paul Kelly (VC)
Foll: Barry Round, Peter Bedford, Bob Skilton (Capt)
Inter: Bill Williams, Stevie Wright, Daryn Cresswell, Fred Goldsmith, Mark Bayes, Harry Clarke, Mark Tandy
Coach: Jack Bissett

[Goal Sneak]

A statement made recently got me thinking. If a greatest Swans side was to be re-selected (the Swans team of the century being named in 2003), who in the last 18 years would make the side and who might they displace?

This is the most recent team of the century from 2003

B: John Rantall, John Heriot, Vic Belcher
H/B: Bill Faul, Ron Clegg, Dennis Carroll
C: David Murphy, Greg Williams, Herb Matthews
H/F: Tony Morwood, Laurie Nash, Gerard Healy
F: Bob Pratt, Tony Lockett, Paul Kelly (VC)
Foll: Barry Round, Peter Bedford, Bob Skilton (Capt)
Inter: Bill Williams, Stevie Wright, Daryn Cresswell, Fred Goldsmith, Mark Bayes, Harry Clarke, Mark Tandy
Coach: Jack Bissett

Crazy to think just how many might push their way in. Since 2003 we've won 2 premierships and had a number of players play over 300 games. I don't know enough about the old south players to make a call but i would suggest their is some serious competition.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

What an excellent off season activity, thanks 09183305

Adam Goodes is a certainty, JPK, Leo and MickyO would all now qualify.