Match Thread. Round 9 v St Kilda.

[Molly dooker]

Agree with all of that. One of McCartin's best games. Loved how he backed himself by leading to the pocket; he knew he could goal from the tight angle and did. The improvement to his set shot is outstanding.

I thought Bell showed good signs, too. Played on impressively at times and tackles hard. Plays with determination and grit.

Fox was good again, although is much better by foot than hand.

Sorry, but that was shocking from Blakey. Missed the gimme in front and then went missing. That miss was a real momentum shifter too. Disappointing.

Poor from Clarke and Gray, too. Clarke had 4 effective disposals and Gray is a good user but is just not impacting the play enough. Sinclair is as bad as he's been for us.

Another almost game from the ambitious Elijah
Taylor, but at least backed himself. My favourite moment of the game was when he steamed across to the wing with the ball in dispute up against three Saints, tapped it to himself a few times, smothered Hill's handball and took the ball over the line. All while Clarke watched on.

+1

I haven't seen anything to date from Clarke to u derstand why he keeps getting played, maybe his ticker but he doesn't even have speed. I try not to be negative about the players but he was out for me last year.

Stick with the youth and let them learn what it takes at this level. If Elijah gets some power sprint training in the off season, We have a star if we can keep him. ?????????

[TheBloods]

I don't get how 'Rowbottom' is 'teasing' - or really what that means? Yes he drops in and out of the match in terms of how influential he is - but he has just ~20 AFL games under his belt at this stage. The kid is doing sensationally well - people are setting exceptionally high expectations if they think he will do that consistently through a match at this time of his career. Only an absolute elite few have been able to do it from the get go - i.e. the once in a generation players.

The way to think about it is think where Florent was at 20 games in, or even Joey Kennedy if you want to go back further. Having brief moments here and there, but having nowhere near the influence Rowbottom is already having. And just look at how Florent has developed from there, to becoming an increasingly important part of our midfield around 50 games later.

Rowbottom is getting better experience in the guts then Florent was, so should develop quicker. I think he is doing outstandingly well in a bog average team at the moment, given where he is in his career - and his stats are more than comparable at the some stage to some of the great midfielders of the modern era.

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Fair call - and without Hewett in the team, we are short of players that can genuinely tag an opponent out. But Clarke really feels like a short term square peg in a round hole, as I can't see fundmentally how he will be part of our best 22 in say 12 months time even.

I meant no disrespect to Rowbottom. It is the opposite, I see something quite special in him and good things happen when he has the ball. If you watch Bailey Smith from WB or Walsh from Carlton, they are everywhere, and in everything. They bounce from contest to contest and stay involved. Rowbottom doesn't do that, he is the same age. He is tracking along nicely but not at the level of someone who will be a future superstar. So it is not me who has the high expectations.

[stevoswan]

That’s fine Stevo, but that didn’t even happen in this thread until bloodswan decided to have a crack at a few others

I highly doubt it takes someone else's comment to get you, captain, troyjones and wolfie to be negative.....come on now, stop deflecting.

[MattW]

I meant no disrespect to Rowbottom. It is the opposite, I see something quite special in him and good things happen when he has the ball. If you watch Bailey Smith from WB or Walsh from Carlton, they are everywhere, and in everything. They bounce from contest to contest and stay involved. Rowbottom doesn't do that, he is the same age. He is tracking along nicely but not at the level of someone who will be a future superstar. So it is not me who has the high expectations.

At the same age, and noting also the shorter games, Rowbottom has:
- comparable stats to two times Bob Skilton Medal winner Luke Parker: link.

- far superior stats than 325 game, premiership player Jarrad McVeigh: link.

- superior stats than 325 game, two time premiership winner Jude Bolton: link.

There are various reason for all of that, but it's to demonstrate that it is way too early to put a ceiling on his potential. I think at 25 games in his second year, he's extremely promising. He is a great tackler, quick away from the stoppage, smart, can kick goals on the run, he backs himself, and he's improving every game. Reckon you're better off just enjoying it.

[waswan]

Id let clarke play as a ball winner and see what he has.
47 touches in the ressies last year is huge,disposal is somewhat irrelevant if its first touch, most of parkers kicks from the middle are over his shoulder

[snajik]

I've reverted to something I did with cricket years ago.
Go to AFL live and select ABC radio commentary.
Spend a few seconds adjusting Fox pic to the ABC sound.
Listen to a reasonably unbiased, knowledgeable call, bereft of 'Back in my day" nonsense.
You even get analysis, why things are done, why they work or don't work'
It's such a relief.

i tried this a few weeks back but found the vision was about 6 or 7 seconds behind the commentary so you knew what was about to happen before it happened.

So this 'adjustment' process is intriguing RB42. i'll have a play around with it for the pies game, hopefully its as straightforward as you make it sound. It's hard enough enduring a losing season without it being exacerbated by bonehead commentary.

[mcs]

I meant no disrespect to Rowbottom. It is the opposite, I see something quite special in him and good things happen when he has the ball. If you watch Bailey Smith from WB or Walsh from Carlton, they are everywhere, and in everything. They bounce from contest to contest and stay involved. Rowbottom doesn't do that, he is the same age. He is tracking along nicely but not at the level of someone who will be a future superstar. So it is not me who has the high expectations.

Not every player is a finished product from Day 1. No doubt Bailey Smith and Walsh are in front of him at this point - but they should be. One was a No 1 draft pick, and the other what 6 or 7 (i.e. mid first round), and they both really have hit the ground running from day 1.

The main differences reflect that Rowbottom is not quite contributing as much around the ground- which could be as simple as him not having the 'tank' of others such as Smith and Walsh, which exactly was what profiles written in their draft year suggested:
James Rowbottom - Aussie Rules Draft Central
Samuel Walsh - Aussie Rules Draft Central
Bailey Smith - Aussie Rules Draft Central

And to be honest he isn't actually that far behind Walsh on many of the key statistical measures:
Sam Walsh and James Rowbottom AFL Stats Comparison

As MattW points out , Rowbottom's statistical output for this point of his career is highly comparable to some of the very best players we have had in recent generations. And they are pretty comparable to a lot of other players that have gone on to be superstars over the last 2 or 3 decades across the competition. Given there is so much subjectivity on this matter, objective statistics are usually the best measure of how someone is tracking along overall. Would you have thrown Gary Ablett Jr on the scrapheap, because it took him 6 seasons to even average above 20 touches a game (noting some that time was spent playing predominately forward)?

[Nico]

I am sure the coaches will point out to Elijah Taylor what people are saying on here. Assuming he plays the next game lets see if his behaviour changes.

[TheBloods]

Not every player is a finished product from Day 1. No doubt Bailey Smith and Walsh are in front of him at this point - but they should be. One was a No 1 draft pick, and the other what 6 or 7 (i.e. mid first round), and they both really have hit the ground running from day 1.

The main differences reflect that Rowbottom is not quite contributing as much around the ground- which could be as simple as him not having the 'tank' of others such as Smith and Walsh, which exactly was what profiles written in their draft year suggested:
James Rowbottom - Aussie Rules Draft Central
Samuel Walsh - Aussie Rules Draft Central
Bailey Smith - Aussie Rules Draft Central

And to be honest he isn't actually that far behind Walsh on many of the key statistical measures:
Sam Walsh and James Rowbottom AFL Stats Comparison

As MattW points out , Rowbottom's statistical output for this point of his career is highly comparable to some of the very best players we have had in recent generations. And they are pretty comparable to a lot of other players that have gone on to be superstars over the last 2 or 3 decades across the competition. Given there is so much subjectivity on this matter, objective statistics are usually the best measure of how someone is tracking along overall. Would you have thrown Gary Ablett Jr on the scrapheap, because it took him 6 seasons to even average above 20 touches a game (noting some that time was spent playing predominately forward)?

It's a different game. Kids are having more of an impact and becoming elite much earlier than they used to. 15, 20 years ago, nearly all teenagers were in the state leagues and barely played a match in their first few years. The form kids show in the current game is more indicative of the player they are going to be than ever before. Smith, Walsh, Rowell, Serong.. these boys will not just fade into obscurity. They are the best mids of their age group, and they'll be the best mids when they are 25+. Rowbottom I think will be in the tier below, which is no disgrace, he will be a good player, but a dominant one? Doubtful.

[Ludwig]

It's a different game. Kids are having more of an impact and becoming elite much earlier than they used to. 15, 20 years ago, nearly all teenagers were in the state leagues and barely played a match in their first few years. The form kids show in the current game is more indicative of the player they are going to be than ever before. Smith, Walsh, Rowell, Serong.. these boys will not just fade into obscurity. They are the best mids of their age group, and they'll be the best mids when they are 25+. Rowbottom I think will be in the tier below, which is no disgrace, he will be a good player, but a dominant one? Doubtful.

Lachie Neale was a pick 58 and played in the shadow of Fyfe and Mundy for years. Now he looks headed for a Brownlow. Those top 10 pics you named look very good and will likely be top class mids. But there are always some that come from obscurity to stardom. It's a bit early to make this kind of call.

[TheBloods]

Lachie Neale was a pick 58 and played in the shadow of Fyfe and Mundy for years. Now he looks headed for a Brownlow. Those top 10 pics you named look very good and will likely be top class mids. But there are always some that come from obscurity to stardom. It's a bit early to make this kind of call.

Perhaps. I don't mind making it. It's not an insult to Rowbottom, I do like the cut of his jib. More that I think his future output could be over-estimated on here.

[royboy42]

The radio is usually ahead of the tv.
At a stoppage, freeze the tv until radio has ball about to come back into play, then hit start.
You can fiddle with fast forward if you miss.
It doesnt take much practice, mate.
Im pretty illiterate technically, so it can be done.
And it's so worth it.

i tried this a few weeks back but found the vision was about 6 or 7 seconds behind the commentary so you knew what was about to happen before it happened.

So this 'adjustment' process is intriguing RB42. i'll have a play around with it for the pies game, hopefully its as straightforward as you make it sound. It's hard enough enduring a losing season without it being exacerbated by bonehead commentary.

[Blood Fever]

The radio is usually ahead of the tv.
At a stoppage, freeze the tv until radio has ball about to come back into play, then hit start.
You can fiddle with fast forward if you miss.
It doesnt take much practice, mate.
Im pretty illiterate technically, so it can be done.
And it's so worth it.

Out of interest,RB, who are special comments guys on ABC radio now. No big fans of Mclure and Malthouse if they are still doing it.

[mcs]

It's a different game. Kids are having more of an impact and becoming elite much earlier than they used to. 15, 20 years ago, nearly all teenagers were in the state leagues and barely played a match in their first few years. The form kids show in the current game is more indicative of the player they are going to be than ever before. Smith, Walsh, Rowell, Serong.. these boys will not just fade into obscurity. They are the best mids of their age group, and they'll be the best mids when they are 25+. Rowbottom I think will be in the tier below, which is no disgrace, he will be a good player, but a dominant one? Doubtful.

Only time will tell.... what is your doubt based on precisely beyond endurance? Assuming that improves, what exactly puts him so far behind those other players? The statistics certainly don't suggest he is too far behind, despite not having the tank those players have (unless all the draft people were lying on that basis - and it seems obvious to most that is where he will improve).

And yes - the game has changed. But the trend of how players develop really has not. You still have those ready to go from day 1 (maybe more are now then previous), but you still have those that don't become superstars overnight, and increasingly you have players that come in far beyond normal recruitment ages/non-traditional pathways and become superstars after serving a long apprenticeship outside of the AFL system. There is no one size fits all way to guarantee a player will make it .

I almost guarantee one of Smith, Wash, Rowell or Serong will not reach the heights predicted by their early performances. I'll also guarantee there are multiple players on football lists currently, some even in 2nd or 3rd years, that can't currently get a crack but will prove to be top quality footballers when the chance does come.

But then, I'm not one to write off players that are yet to even play a seniors match, and neither will I put a ceiling on players who are showing huge promise early in their career because I think they are not quite at the same point at others drafted at other clubs at the same time. But then again, I haven't written us off for the next decade either.

[royboy42]

Out of interest,RB, who are special comments guys on ABC radio now. No big fans of Mclure and Malthouse if they are still doing it.

Think it was Daisy, the twins' mum from AFLW did it last weekend. She is terrific. Haven't heard either of the geriatrics doing the games I've listened to. Of course, the ABC covers plenty games .