Swans v Dogs Gamethread

[joeykanga]

Why don’t we try this.

Can everyone answer the following questions:

1) Is there one umpire you respect?

2) Is there one commentator you enjoy listening to?

If you can’t answer the above questions your probably being unrealistic in your expectations of umpires and commentators.

If you answer the above questions with a bile of abuse then you are graduating to keyboard warrior.

I really enjoyed the wa umpires we had for one game I can’t remember which gane
Don’t know their names probably because they did their job so well ..I remember a poster on here mentioning where they were from .

I enjoy the combination of Speedy , Lyon and Brown …I also like Huddo and don’t mind Montagna
Also actually really like Bartel , Daisy the aflw star ..and even Hodge
On the next line of commentators a little down the order
Don’t actually mind Dermott and even Dunstall and possibly Brayshaw before the ones I don’t think are at all great start feeling up the spots so I’ll be positive and leave those unarmed

[Captain]

Surely you can see the hypocrisy of your post? Chastising Sandrevan for encouraging people to leave negative comments on Twitter and then throwing in a slur about "assuming you actually have one." Shot yourself in the foot there.

Actually wasn't intended to be a slur. If it was interpreted that way then I unreservedly apologise.

It's a shame that my initial point against personal Twitter abuse was lost. It's interesting you disapprove of one but not the other though.

[Sandridge]

Actually wasn't intended to be a slur. If it was interpreted that way then I unreservedly apologise.

It's a shame that my initial point against personal Twitter abuse was lost. It's interesting you disapprove of one but not the other though.

Did I say it's alright to post nasty comments on Twitter? No, I didn't. What galls me is the hypocrisy you show when you berate someone for encouraging others to voice negative opinions and then throw in an insult yourself.

If the jibe about "if you have a job" wasn't meant to be a slur, what was the point of putting it in your post?

[Captain]

Did I say it's alright to post nasty comments on Twitter? No, I didn't. What galls me is the hypocrisy you show when you berate someone for encouraging others to voice negative opinions and then throw in an insult yourself.

If the jibe about "if you have a job" wasn't meant to be a slur, what was the point of putting it in your post?

You didn’t say it’s alright but you didn’t call it out either. Given you took the time to call out my comment (which I had already stated wasn’t intended) I’m surprised you didn’t call out the actual issue. That also galls me.

I put it in because I figured there was a chance they didn’t have a job and therefore not a good application of my point. That could be for many reasons (retired, teenager, unemployed etc) none of which I care about and none of which were intended to be a slur.

I conceded that it could be misinterpreted and therefore apologised. Even after explaining it wasn’t meant to be an insult and apologised if it was interpreted as such, you are still calling it hypocritical?

[MattW]

Gulden's deft little 45 kicks into the corridor were outstanding, and how was his defensive spoiling
?

is it just me or has the reintroduction of Errol and his footy smarts, along with Dawson becoming an attacking weapon from the wing, changed the course of our season?

Yes, along with the associated move of Blakey onto half back to add dash and kicking skills. I have been critical of his kicking, but he's been a revelation playing behind the ball.

[Sandridge]

You didn’t say it’s alright but you didn’t call it out either. Given you took the time to call out my comment (which I had already stated wasn’t intended) I’m surprised you didn’t call out the actual issue. That also galls me.

I put it in because I figured there was a chance they didn’t have a job and therefore not a good application of my point. That could be for many reasons (retired, teenager, unemployed etc) none of which I care about and none of which were intended to be a slur.

I conceded that it could be misinterpreted and therefore apologised. Even after explaining it wasn’t meant to be an insult and apologised if it was interpreted as such, you are still calling it hypocritical?

Because your posts are always positive, optimistic and encouraging? Kudos on the apology, though.

[Bangalore Swans]

Yes, along with the associated move of Blakey onto half back to add dash and kicking skills. I have been critical of his kicking, but he's been a revelation playing behind the ball.

Blakey is the big move for me. He looked so dynamic back there. Dawson is playing brilliant football from the wing as well.

Gulden’s been great as well. I hope the club gives him some games rested to keep him sharp.

And watch out for the moment when Chad returns to the senior team and hits his first contest.

[Hotpotato]

You keep saying this, stevo, and it's not true. In fact Richmond has by FAR the worst free kick differential. Last time I checked they were based in Victoria.

However, the Bulldogs (and West Coast) do do consistently well in terms of free kick differential and we tend to languish towards the bottom. West Coast is not a VFL side. And the Bulldogs are not one of the big power clubs. Conversely, we have not fared well with the umps generally over the Longmire era (dunno before that).

I tend to think it is more to do with gamestyle and coaching. I don't subscribe to umpire bias theory (except affirmation bias).

None of which is to say it is not frustrating when we get soft frees against us and the opposition get away with repeated infringements.

Anyway, Mongrel Punt has published their typically quality review of the game: Sydney v Western Bulldogs - The Good, Bad and Ugly - The Mongrel Punt. You'll be pleased to see they comment on the umpiring.

The Mongrel Punt is a must read every week , it really is an insightful piece.
Parker has missed one game in five years. Astonishing.

[The Great One]

Why don’t we try this.

Can everyone answer the following questions:

1) Is there one umpire you respect?

2) Is there one commentator you enjoy listening to?

If you can’t answer the above questions your probably being unrealistic in your expectations of umpires and commentators.

If you answer the above questions with a bile of abuse then you are graduating to keyboard warrior.

1. I think the wa umpire Dean Margets (#6) is OK.

2. Best commentators are Anthony Hudson. Gerard Whately and Brenton Speed.

When you understand that Gerard does cricket and horse racing as well as afl and Speed does nrl and A league soccer, their sporting knowledge has to be respected.

[Hotpotato]

Apparently Rex Hunt has been axed for good :

Aw

“My gosh Lockett is a very big man, you wouldn’t want him farting into your last pound of flour!”

RH

[Faunac8]

This is a good question and I would be fascinated to know the answer. Not sure that no other club gets away with the things they do but they do get away with stuff and they do get a very favourable free kick differential. The hypothesis has been put forward that it is because they are first to the ball more often than not.

Interesting when you look at the stats for the last 50 plus years and it appears that the Dogs have had a pretty good run over that time.
During this period it would be fair to say that for many years they weren’t often first to the ball so that argument probably doesn’t hold up and I think it’s possible that there has been a slight unconscious bias based on their battler status.
Also check out the free kick stats for the 4 finals in 2016. Total for the dogs over 4 games 79 for 48 against for the Swans 59 for and 82 against which is pretty hard to justify

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/frees.html

[Ludwig]

Why don’t we try this.

Can everyone answer the following questions:

1) Is there one umpire you respect?

2) Is there one commentator you enjoy listening to?

If you can’t answer the above questions your probably being unrealistic in your expectations of umpires and commentators.

If you answer the above questions with a bile of abuse then you are graduating to keyboard warrior.

Oh Boy! A Quiz. I love a quiz. Here we go.

My favorite umpire is Eleni Glouftsis. She hasn't bothered to learn the rules, so rarely makes mistakes.

I enjoy listening to Brian Taylor, but after 6 hours, I need a short break.

Do I win a prize?

[stevoswan]

Did I say it's alright to post nasty comments on Twitter? No, I didn't. What galls me is the hypocrisy you show when you berate someone for encouraging others to voice negative opinions and then throw in an insult yourself.

If the jibe about "if you have a job" wasn't meant to be a slur, what was the point of putting it in your post?

+1

[bloodspirit]

Apparently Rex Hunt has been axed for good :

Aw

“My gosh Lockett is a very big man, you wouldn’t want him farting into your last pound of flour!”

RH

[bloodspirit]

Interesting when you look at the stats for the last 50 plus years and it appears that the Dogs have had a pretty good run over that time.
During this period it would be fair to say that for many years they weren’t often first to the ball so that argument probably doesn’t hold up and I think it’s possible that there has been a slight unconscious bias based on their battler status.
Also check out the free kick stats for the 4 finals in 2016. Total for the dogs over 4 games 79 for 48 against for the Swans 59 for and 82 against which is pretty hard to justify
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/frees.html

The mere fact that there is a difference in free kicks - even over a sustained period - is not necessarily hard to justify. There is no reason to presume that different teams should all, over the long term at least, get about the same number of free kicks.

A simple example would be that where one team plays dirty deliberately then you might expect they would get more free kicks against them. A less extreme example is that an ill-disciplined team would get more free kicks against them.

A differential could also relate to gamestyle - being coached to play in a certain way. This could be inadvertent or deliberate. Deliberate examples might run along the lines of it being a 'professional foul' where the upside of risking (or even conceding) the free kick against is worth the benefit e.g. lying all over the tackled player and holding the ball up to allow teammates time to get back in position. But professional fouls would be the exception not the rule. And coaching that is inadvertently leading to free kicks is poor technique and would get ironed out e.g. teaching players to tackle better.

The thing that I don't understand is that the Swans are not lacking in discipline and I don't think we would be considered a dirty team by any stretch of the imagination. (Conversely, at least on RWO many would consider the Dogs to be a dirtier team (albeit not to - to my mind - the same degree as the 'unsociable' Hawks).) So, what gives?

I'm more curious than tending to the theory that umpires are consciously biased which just doesn't make much sense to me. I think unconscious biases could be a part of the explanation but I feel there's more to it and that some of it has to do with game style. For instance, the Swans are known as a 'contested' team. Would this in any way explain us getting more frees against? This season I think I saw that we are rated the #1 'pressure' team. Would this involve conceding more frees inadvertently in the process of applying maximum pressure to the opposition? I think Richmond in recent times have been a high pressure team - would that correlate with them conceding more frees?