2022 List management, trading, drafting

[Bangalore Swans]

Lloyd’s underwhelming start to his season won’t be helping boost that potential price he might be chasing.


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I think Lloyd is gone to free agancy. Like Hewitt, he’s a very good AFL level player, but his position is replaceable.

He’ll get paid well somewhere else and we’re not going to be competing on price. We need some cap available to pay P.McCartin, Campbell, Blakey, Tom McCartin, J-Mac, Chad, Guldon, Florent, and Logan. These guys are the future and you don’t need to be paying overs for 29 year old (September) half back flankers.

If Lloyd were to go out we have brilliant half back flanker prospects in Campbell, Blakey and J-Mac to step in.

I think the way forward in list management is to keep blue chip talents like Mills, Heeney and Papley into their early 30s whilst letting the good mid age AFL footballers like Lloyd, Cunningham and Hewitt go in free agency. Doing this manages the salary cap well and allows the younger players opportunities. If you can be orchestrating 4 draft picks under pick 45 each year you are always going to have some good players coming through.

[Aprilbr]

I think Lloyd is gone to free agancy. Like Hewitt, he’s a very good AFL level player, but his position is replaceable.

He’ll get paid well somewhere else and we’re not going to be competing on price. We need some cap available to pay P.McCartin, Campbell, Blakey, Tom McCartin, J-Mac, Chad, Guldon, Florent, and Logan. These guys are the future and you don’t need to be paying overs for 29 year old (September) half back flankers.

If Lloyd were to go out we have brilliant half back flanker prospects in Campbell, Blakey and J-Mac to step in.

I think the way forward in list management is to keep blue chip talents like Mills, Heeney and Papley into their early 30s whilst letting the good mid age AFL footballers like Lloyd, Cunningham and Hewitt go in free agency. Doing this manages the salary cap well and allows the younger players opportunities. If you can be orchestrating 4 draft picks under pick 45 each year you are always going to have some good players coming through.

I tend to agree, BS. We should make a fair offer to keep him but if he wants big money then let him go. He may be of more value to a developing team like North than us. Of course, if he goes to a place like that he won't be playing in any premierships. He came along after our 2012 flag so he would be keen to be at a club in their premiership window.

Our priority re-signings are McInerney, Florent etc.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I’d be deeeeeeeeeeeply reluctant to let Lloyd go. He’s just about our best two way player and a far better defender these days than he’s given credit for. He doesn’t keep winning or placing in B&Fs for nothing.

Then it gets down to money. Think I saw somewhere he’s on around $600-650K.

We have a lot to do the next two years: Mills, Paps, JMac, the McCartins and others.

But if Lloyd is happy to do 3 x $500K, sign him up.

[AB Swannie]

How much would we have to offer Sicily to come here? Not sure he passes the no dickhaed rule but he’d be a perfect Rampe replacement. If we lost Lloyd’s contract and added 200k more, would that do it?

[Faunac8]

How much would we have to offer Sicily to come here? Not sure he passes the no dickhaed rule but he’d be a perfect Rampe replacement. If we lost Lloyd’s contract and added 200k more, would that do it?

Not sure if he fits our ideal age profile given he turns 28 before next season. Having said that he hasn’t played 100 games yet so is still low mileage for a defender. I don’t think he is worth 200k more than Jake who is only 1 year older

[707]

How much would we have to offer Sicily to come here? Not sure he passes the no dickhaed rule but he’d be a perfect Rampe replacement. If we lost Lloyd’s contract and added 200k more, would that do it?

Sicily won't be moving so not even worth mulling over. He's likely the next captain of Hawthorn I've read.

I think we are now out of salary cap stress, we won't be letting players go due to money, that we want to keep on our list. We've got a number of players retiring or getting delisted this off season.

[AB Swannie]

Sicily won't be moving so not even worth mulling over. He's likely the next captain of Hawthorn I've read.

I think we are now out of salary cap stress, we won't be letting players go due to money, that we want to keep on our list. We've got a number of players retiring or getting delisted this off season.

Agree that is less than a remote possibility that he leaves the Hawks but I’m just playing the hypothetical game. For me, the area where we lack the most depth is still in the defensive stocks. We’ve been kissed on the proverbial with the addition of Paddy Mc but Rampe is on the decline and Melican is depth. Unless Gould jumps out of the ground, another tallish defender is our greatest need. Sicily makes us significantly better while we are entering the window.

[Roadrunner]

Agree that is less than a remote possibility that he leaves the Hawks but I’m just playing the hypothetical game. For me, the area where we lack the most depth is still in the defensive stocks. We’ve been kissed on the proverbial with the addition of Paddy Mc but Rampe is on the decline and Melican is depth. Unless Gould jumps out of the ground, another tallish defender is our greatest need. Sicily makes us significantly better while we are entering the window.

Ramps should be good for a few more years yet, and as you say we are blessed with Paddy. This has given Ramps a new role as he is now playing on smaller, quicker forwards and needs a little time to adjust. I’m sure his game will be back soon to his previous high level.

Not a fan of taking key players from other clubs, only if they really want to come to us like Buddy, or not getting opportunities like the case was with Joey. Sicily is not in that category, so no.

We need to groom defenders via the draft and though this takes time and careful planning, it is the best way to go. Of course there will be some busts but we need to give lads like Gould a chance to show what they can do. Apparently he has been playing well in the twos so we need to find a spot for him. Maybe rest Lloyd or Cunningham for a week and bring him in? A bit of a risk but otherwise how will we ever know? Similarly with O’Connor- if he can show form then bring him in for a game or two.

[SwanSand]

If he remains injury free, don’t see why not. He is still a major contributor but I would like to see another key forward emerge to give us more aerial power. Hopefully that will be Logan. Amartey has a great leap but maybe not a consistently high mark, though would like to try him at FF a few times. McLean can be good but can’t see him dominate a game. Isaac is needed everywhere so who else do we have?

I am sure we need to look at our forward structure for the next 3-5 years. Logan will take another 2 years before he dominates if not 3-4. McLean is a third tall option at the best. I can’t see him dominate games and kick 40-60 goals a season nor can Amartey. So who do we have 2 years down the track when all our midfielders and backline with Mccartins are in the prime. Do we target someone readymade ? Or we draft someone. I would think targeting someone readymade is going to be the key. Dan McStay?

[dejavoodoo44]

Ramps should be good for a few more years yet, and as you say we are blessed with Paddy. This has given Ramps a new role as he is now playing on smaller, quicker forwards and needs a little time to adjust. I’m sure his game will be back soon to his previous high level.

Not a fan of taking key players from other clubs, only if they really want to come to us like Buddy, or not getting opportunities like the case was with Joey. Sicily is not in that category, so no.

We need to groom defenders via the draft and though this takes time and careful planning, it is the best way to go. Of course there will be some busts but we need to give lads like Gould a chance to show what they can do. Apparently he has been playing well in the twos so we need to find a spot for him. Maybe rest Lloyd or Cunningham for a week and bring him in? A bit of a risk but otherwise how will we ever know? Similarly with O’Connor- if he can show form then bring him in for a game or two.

Going on Gould's form in the VFL this season, I'm confident he can step up if needed. He's been spoiling and marking well. His kicking is a weapon, and at times he's been playing a leadership role, when the defence has been almost entirely lacking AFL listed players.

[Roadrunner]

I am sure we need to look at our forward structure for the next 3-5 years. Logan will take another 2 years before he dominates if not 3-4. McLean is a third tall option at the best. I can’t see him dominate games and kick 40-60 goals a season nor can Amartey. So who do we have 2 years down the track when all our midfielders and backline with Mccartins are in the prime. Do we target someone readymade ? Or we draft someone. I would think targeting someone readymade is going to be the key. Dan McStay?

Key forwards, like rucks, usually take a few years to develop. McLean may never dominate but he still only has played few games and needs a couple of years- he can be more than useful. Amartey has definite upside with his leap and just needs good coaching, which we have. Logan could be great with more games under his belt.

Not keen on taking readymade players unless they want to come to us- prefer the draft though it takes longer and of course some don’t work out.

Our small forwards should be able to feed off Amartey and McLean, with Logan the key target upfront.

[KSAS]

Despite how well (not surprisingly) Hewitt & Dawson are doing, I believe the club has made right (tough) decision for the long term success. Dawson was out of our control, similar to Tom Mitchell. Club will need to make more tough decisions on Kennedy for rest of year alongside Reid, who both need to really earn their spots over younger rivals beginning to hit their prime. Buddy will be a end of year evaluation. Club's only recent blemish with the benefit of hindsight, is drafting Stephens over Serong but there is still time on Stephens side (till end of next season at least) to prove himself.

On another note, is it worth putting our hat into the ring to try & lure Luke Jackson from Melbourme after report yesterday he has put contract talks off to mid year? He is most likely to re-sign but quality ruckman is still our biggest deficiency in the long term given Hickey's age. Jackson & Ladhams would make a good combo on paper. He would demand at least $800k and whether our 2 first rounders this year (ironically one of them being previously Melbourne's) would be enough in a hypothetical trade? Could our current salary cap & into the future afford him?

[Aprilbr]

Despite how well (not surprisingly) Hewitt & Dawson are doing, I believe the club has made right (tough) decision for the long term success. Dawson was out of our control, similar to Tom Mitchell. Club will need to make more tough decisions on Kennedy for rest of year alongside Reid, who both need to really earn their spots over younger rivals beginning to hit their prime. Buddy will be a end of year evaluation. Club's only recent blemish with the benefit of hindsight, is drafting Stephens over Serong but there is still time on Stephens side (till end of next season at least) to prove himself.

On another note, is it worth putting our hat into the ring to try & lure Luke Jackson from Melbourme after report yesterday he has put contract talks off to mid year? He is most likely to re-sign but quality ruckman is still our biggest deficiency in the long term given Hickey's age. Jackson & Ladhams would make a good combo on paper. He would demand at least $800k and whether our 2 first rounders this year (ironically one of them being previously Melbourne's) would be enough in a hypothetical trade? Could our current salary cap & into the future afford him?

I think that arguably, Jackson is the hottest young talent in the game at present along with the King brothers. Acquiring him will cost a long-term contract of $1 million p.a. in my view. There will be many lining up for his services. Given he is from W.A., I think should he leave Melbourne (which is still unlikely) he would head back there anyway.

I think there is a question mark going forward around our key defenders. There is a strong argument that none of the Pelican, Gould or O'Connor are good enough. Hapoy to be proven wrong. Rampe is getting on and Paddy is one bad head knock away from permanent retirement (sadly). Hence, we may need to prioritise that area next draft.

We are also short one elite midfielder in my view. We have gone after a lot of players in the draft to meet that need. Can one of those develop into elite status or will we need to buy in a big fish like Essendon did with Shields and WCE with Kelly. Ironically, neither of those trades seem to have worked out so maybe there is a message in that?

King at St Kilda is rapidly developing into a marquee forward. We certainly could do with someone like that as Buddy nears the end. Maybe McDonald can step up to do that as he certainly has the talent? However, he is a different type of forward to King. I would argue McDonald plays more like Reiwolt did at St Kilda. Athletic running key forward who gets up and down the ground. King stays near the goals and so he should. He is an elite marking option. His brother at GC shows lots of promise too, but has recently re-signed there . Interesting times ahead!

[Ocker]

Going on Gould's form in the VFL this season, I'm confident he can step up if needed. He's been spoiling and marking well. His kicking is a weapon, and at times he's been playing a leadership role, when the defence has been almost entirely lacking AFL listed players.

I was at the game on Sunday and was pleasantly surprised with Gould's performance. After half time with the departure of Roberts and Amartey, for mine he was our best. Is kicking is great and he covered plenty of ground, even being used as ruck at one point. Ryan Clarke is an enigma, gets to the right place to get heaps of possessions, but struggles once he has ball in hand.

[NeonBible]

I was at the game on Sunday and was pleasantly surprised with Gould's performance. After half time with the departure of Roberts and Amartey, for mine he was our best. Is kicking is great and he covered plenty of ground, even being used as ruck at one point. Ryan Clarke is an enigma, gets to the right place to get heaps of possessions, but struggles once he has ball in hand.

Hi Ocker,

Thrilled I wasn't the only one impressed by Gould!! You would have a better idea how he went being at the game as opposed to watching on an iPad!! But from what I could tell, he was a consistent and steady performer! I wonder - what does he need to do to earn a senior debut?? I am thinking back to Melican and Aliir in the NEAFL.. or as recently as Paddy McCartin in the VFL last year.. i don't know if Gould's form is actually much different than any of those defenders before they got their debuts?? Has there just been a greater expectation on him, because of his well-documented fitness issues and his senior "readiness" after blitzing it in the SANFL?

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts!!

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