2022 List management, trading, drafting

[Auntie.Gerald]

Sights and sounds - Up close at training 28.01.22 - YouTube

Lachlan McAndrew | AFL

I must say Lachlan's competitiveness and raw diamond approach is starting to catch my attention.

I have only popped into one off season training but young "Sticksy" is now 101kg and 4kg heavier than Hickey............check out 1min 38 seconds in on this footage and the repeated efforts and chase on nullifying Gulden.

Also our other Sticksy young Lizard took the scared option when Lachlan was raging in for the high ball one on one

We have time with Lachlan and he has one of the best teaching him........plus our rotation of rucks is deep and competitive right now.......Sinclair probably retiring end of 2022. Naismith low odds but possible as a come back. Ladhams and Hickey solid one to combo and McAndrew soaking it all up in this nursery !

2mins 35 seconds in McAndrew owns Ladhams and exist with a kick from the contest

he truly is the next huntsman spider with those long arms

and maybe an important keeper on our 2023 list and beyond

[bloodspirit]

First Errol, now Ramped has extended - but only for one additional season: Off the table: Co-captain turns back on free agency to stay a Swan.

Seems slightly strange to me to sign him to such a short extension so early in the season, but I'm delighted. Love Rampe. Not just co-captain, but one of our spiritual leaders.

[AB Swannie]

First Errol, now Ramped has extended - but only for one additional season: Off the table: Co-captain turns back on free agency to stay a Swan.

Seems slightly strange to me to sign him to such a short extension so early in the season, but I'm delighted. Love Rampe. Not just co-captain, but one of our spiritual leaders.

I'm only speculating but there are trade-offs with all negotiations. For someone like Dane, it is in his best interest to sign as early as possible to mitigate risks of career-ending injury. Therefore, instead of getting every possible cent out of the club, the contract is agreed to early. Rampe can concentrate on his football and the recruiters can focus on Heeney & McDonald.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Agree AB
And I suspect that most players once 31yrs ish are on a year by year

The Hawks had the policy for a while and so to Geelong

Plus if we provide a strong 1 year contract now while we can afford it Dane will probably receive a little less in the later years which is a nice win win for the club and player.

[707]

I wonder whether they will cover the saga of how we got screwed over by Adelaide with Dawson?

Apparently was outstanding yesterday playing in the middle in Crows internal trial :-(

It still hurts!

[royboy42]

I forget who it was against, but one of the opposing talls reached up for a mark, but unfortunately for him, Errol sauntered up behind him, leapt high and imperiously smacked the ball out of bounds. It was one of many Gulden moments, where I thought to myself, 'gee that was good'.

Footy IQ is an interesting topic. I suspect that it has a lot to do with both the ability to see more of the field than other players and the speed at which a wide array of options can be assessed. Though to explain what I really mean by those nebulous statements, I'll probably have to write an essay length post, and the trading thread might not be the place for that.

I'm with you Deja.

The exceptionals see more options, more quickly, decide which is the optimal and while simultaneously finding space deliver the ball exactly where it should go.

Any one of these skills is wonderful, two are fantastic and all three spell CHAMPION of the game.

[Roadrunner]

Apparently was outstanding yesterday playing in the middle in Crows internal trial :-(

It still hurts!

Yes, still hurts, but he chose to be with a club that ain’t going anywhere soon, rather than stay with us.

Do we want a player, no matter how good, who doesn’t want to be part of this team? He said he wants to be part of building a team to challenge-he had that here and then some! We will miss him but the gap will be filled and I can’t wait for us to smash them!

[NeonBible]

Yes, still hurts, but he chose to be with a club that ain’t going anywhere soon, rather than stay with us.

Do we want a player, no matter how good, who doesn’t want to be part of this team? He said he wants to be part of building a team to challenge-he had that here and then some! We will miss him but the gap will be filled and I can’t wait for us to smash them!

Hi roadrunner,

I wonder if seeing how quickly we were able to rebound from a few years on the bottom gave Jordan some confidence that the Crows could do the same.. they have some fantastic young talent, perhaps he thought wearing a year or two of battling would be worth it for the turnaround, especially if he gets to be nearer to his family when that turnaround happens!

[stevoswan]

Hi roadrunner,

I wonder if seeing how quickly we were able to rebound from a few years on the bottom gave Jordan some confidence that the Crows could do the same.. they have some fantastic young talent, perhaps he thought wearing a year or two of battling would be worth it for the turnaround, especially if he gets to be nearer to his family when that turnaround happens!

If that's true it shows that he was never a true Blood....that his heart was always in Adelaide. We have far better young talent so good riddance to him. I hope he never has success at the Crows.

[NeonBible]

If that's true it shows that he was never a true Blood....that his heart was always in Adelaide. We have far better young talent so good riddance to him. I hope he never has success at the Crows.

Everyone believes their young talent is better than the rest. It was long believed that the Gold Coast Suns had the best young talent.. for a decade!! It hasn't brought them close to a premiership! GWS have only come as close as an 89 point belting to a premiership!! Carlton have had endless number 1 draft picks!!

Young talent alone is not enough to win a flag.. therefore alone it is not enough of a reason to base your life somewhere.. there needs to be other reasons.. home.. family.. inner happiness.. if Jordan stayed in Sydney and we never won a flag, what would he have to show for himself behind 10 years of not being as happy as he wanted to be??

[Roadrunner]

Everyone believes their young talent is better than the rest. It was long believed that the Gold Coast Suns had the best young talent.. for a decade!! It hasn't brought them close to a premiership! GWS have only come as close as an 89 point belting to a premiership!! Carlton have had endless number 1 draft picks!!

Young talent alone is not enough to win a flag.. therefore alone it is not enough of a reason to base your life somewhere.. there needs to be other reasons.. home.. family.. inner happiness.. if Jordan stayed in Sydney and we never won a flag, what would he have to show for himself behind 10 years of not being as happy as he wanted to be??

I hear you Neon.

The thing is, Jordan seemed happy with the Swans, but maybe not passionate. I see it a bit like a relationship: you tick certain boxes and if all goes well, you’re happy. But when an issue comes along, you think you may jump ship. This is because you weren’t passionate and deeply committed in the first place! That’s the main reason players change clubs: either for money or the go home factor. Now I’m not judging them- they are entitled to make choices.

But I do believe that except for unusual circumstances, if a player changes clubs there was something missing in the first place. If family was so important to Jordan, he should have allowed the club to deal with both SA clubs to get the best deal for us- he owed the club that, as the club gave him the nurture and coaching to develop him to a level that would make him sought after.

We got screwed by the Crows, because they were able to do us due to Jordan’s choice and that’s why I hope we smash them this year!

[dejavoodoo44]

I'm with you Deja.

The exceptionals see more options, more quickly, decide which is the optimal and while simultaneously finding space deliver the ball exactly where it should go.

Any one of these skills is wonderful, two are fantastic and all three spell CHAMPION of the game.

The ability to see and process options is an interesting topic and one that gives me a bit more appreciation of the task faced by the recruiting staff. In that, they're skills that are probably hard to pick up by testing and data, but are more likely to be noticed through plenty of observation.

On observation: seeing which players have a higher level of mental processing ability, is probably easiest when they're compared to players that have less than average ability to see the game. For instance, there wouldn't be that much difference in the fitness level, athletic prowess and attitude of Gulden, Franklin and Papley, compared to the group of Clarke, Bell and Ronke. But time and time again, the first three would have successfully completed an onfield task, in the time that the other group were still assessing what the task was. So, it's fairly easy to conclude, that there's a difference in processing ability between group A and group B. However, assessing the difference between very good mental processors and elite processors, would be more difficult. And for recruiting staff observing juniors, that could involve going to an awful lot of games and watching even more footage.

And I'm not sure how footy IQ could be tested at draft camp, in a similar way that athletic ability is tested through beep tests, time trials, etc. Maybe you could test reaction time, but that tends to just measure speed of response to a stimulus, rather than a talent for assessing a range of stimuli. Possibly more useful would be something like distracting a participant in the foreground, then quizzing them on what they observed in the background? Although, a confound there, is that might be more of a test of memory rather than observation? That is, on a football field, someone might see a range of options and pick the right option, without actually committing any of those options to memory.

And there'd be problems with data as well. Disposal efficiency stats could be helpful, but they're likely to be affected by a range of influences: how well team mates run into space; how much shepherding they do to protect the ball carrier; how often a player gets possession in heavy traffic, etc. So stats may not be that much use for assessing footy IQ?

One thing that may be handy is networking? That is, since recruiters have limits on how many games they can get to, they do have networks of contacts, who report back to them on likely prospects. And I suspect that a few of those reports, will involve something like, "I don't really know what it is about this kid, but he seems to use the ball really well, so I think you should come down and have a look at him".

So, the recruiter would then come down, to process just how well the prospect processes the game.

[stevoswan]

I hear you Neon.

The thing is, Jordan seemed happy with the Swans, but maybe not passionate. I see it a bit like a relationship: you tick certain boxes and if all goes well, you’re happy. But when an issue comes along, you think you may jump ship. This is because you weren’t passionate and deeply committed in the first place! That’s the main reason players change clubs: either for money or the go home factor. Now I’m not judging them- they are entitled to make choices.

But I do believe that except for unusual circumstances, if a player changes clubs there was something missing in the first place. If family was so important to Jordan, he should have allowed the club to deal with both SA clubs to get the best deal for us- he owed the club that, as the club gave him the nurture and coaching to develop him to a level that would make him sought after.

We got screwed by the Crows, because they were able to do us due to Jordan’s choice and that’s why I hope we smash them this year!

+1.....can I plus more? Great post.

[Auntie.Gerald]

O don't think Port could have gone close to matching the offer for Dawso

It was a one club option

He was homesick

No zillions people homesick after the last two years

Family starting off soon and want to be in the same state majority of time.

Seemed a no brianer for me that Dawso went back to Adelaide and good luck to him.

Developing players like Dawso are worth the risk because if they stay it hasn't cost much in development years.

But developing or trading is not risk free.

We could match the offer despite it sounding like we were competitive with our offer.

[bloodspirit]

The ability to see and process options is an interesting topic and one that gives me a bit more appreciation of the task faced by the recruiting staff. In that, they're skills that are probably hard to pick up by testing and data, but are more likely to be noticed through plenty of observation.

On observation: seeing which players have a higher level of mental processing ability, is probably easiest when they're compared to players that have less than average ability to see the game. For instance, there wouldn't be that much difference in the fitness level, athletic prowess and attitude of Gulden, Franklin and Papley, compared to the group of Clarke, Bell and Ronke. But time and time again, the first three would have successfully completed an onfield task, in the time that the other group were still assessing what the task was. So, it's fairly easy to conclude, that there's a difference in processing ability between group A and group B. However, assessing the difference between very good mental processors and elite processors, would be more difficult. And for recruiting staff observing juniors, that could involve going to an awful lot of games and watching even more footage.

And I'm not sure how footy IQ could be tested at draft camp, in a similar way that athletic ability is tested through beep tests, time trials, etc. Maybe you could test reaction time, but that tends to just measure speed of response to a stimulus, rather than a talent for assessing a range of stimuli. Possibly more useful would be something like distracting a participant in the foreground, then quizzing them on what they observed in the background? Although, a confound there, is that might be more of a test of memory rather than observation? That is, on a football field, someone might see a range of options and pick the right option, without actually committing any of those options to memory.

And there'd be problems with data as well. Disposal efficiency stats could be helpful, but they're likely to be affected by a range of influences: how well team mates run into space; how much shepherding they do to protect the ball carrier; how often a player gets possession in heavy traffic, etc. So stats may not be that much use for assessing footy IQ?

One thing that may be handy is networking? That is, since recruiters have limits on how many games they can get to, they do have networks of contacts, who report back to them on likely prospects. And I suspect that a few of those reports, will involve something like, "I don't really know what it is about this kid, but he seems to use the ball really well, so I think you should come down and have a look at him".

So, the recruiter would then come down, to process just how well the prospect processes the game.

Great, thoughtful post. Thanks deja.

I'm more with NeonBible and Auntie Gerald than stevo in relation to Dawson. I don't think he lacked passion for the Swans, he's just a laconic kind of guy from the country. And these days footy is enough of an industry that he is entitled to look after himself. I think of him regretfully but wish him well - the Crows, not so much.