Rd 10 vs Carlton Blues Friday 7:50PM @ Marvel - Pre-Game Thread

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  • liz
    Veteran
    Site Admin
    • Jan 2003
    • 16756

    Originally posted by neilfws
    It's often stated (without much evidence) that the Swans do better than other clubs when it comes to "recycled" players, that is players that go better when they come to the Swans.

    I've often meant to look into it, but we'd have to define "better". Presumably one measure is simply playing more games for a second or subsequent club than the first, though lots of factors could affect that measure.

    Anyway, mental note for a fun stats project some time.
    That was probably true during the naughties (and maybe the nineties) but I guess less so in the last decade. Though Kennedy, Mumford and Shaw played most of their Swans footy in the 2010s, despite being recruited before the decade began.

    Since then our influx of players from other clubs has been limited by salary cap pressures and (to an extent) the trade ban. Those we've tried recently as "cheap" top ups to the squad (Lewis, Clarke, Brand, Gray) have been more hit than miss.

    Maybe the ruckmen buck the trend somewhat. Hickey has been invaluable, albeit we'll only have him for a brief period. Ladhams may deliver for longer. And while Sinclair was only ever an "OK" ruckman, he's given us lionhearted service over many years.

    Particularly in the 90s we had a steady flow of top draftees who deserted us - Grant, Rocca, the Richmond defender whose name deserts me. The outflow of fringe and middling players who have gone on to have good careers elsewhere feels more recent. Players like Phillips, Faulks, the injury-riddled Chapman didn't amount to much at their new clubs. But in the last decade we've experienced brief but promising outputs from Biggs and Murray, decent to excellent outputs from White, Nankervis, Newman, Jones, Cameron. I think it reflects well on our recruiters that they've identified so many players with latish ND and rookie draft picks who have formed the basis of our own team's success and contributed to others.
    Last edited by liz; 20 May 2022, 03:38 PM.

    Comment

    • Ruck'n'Roll
      Ego alta, ergo ictus
      • Nov 2003
      • 3990

      Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
      It might be an interesting off season (time wasting) activity to compile a list of players that have done better than expected after departing the Swans.
      Originally posted by TheBloods
      Would rather a root canal thanks !
      Gosh, well if such a thread does get opened in the off season, we'll try to struggle through despite your absence from that thread.

      Comment

      • Meg
        Go Swannies!
        Site Admin
        • Aug 2011
        • 4828

        Rd 10 vs Carlton Blues Friday 7:50PM @ Marvel - Pre-Game Thread

        Originally posted by liz
        That was probably true during the naughties (and maybe the nineties) but I guess less so in the last decade. ....
        Lol, was that a Freudian slip, Liz? What were you up to in the decade from year 2000? [emoji3]]

        Comment

        • TheBloods
          Suspended by the MRP
          • Feb 2020
          • 2047

          Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
          Gosh, well if such a thread does get opened in the off season, we'll try to struggle through despite your absence from that thread.
          Why be nasty , i was having a joke . Same as top of the page , i stick up for someone and in return get a smart arse comment aimed at me.

          Comment

          • Sandridge
            Outer wing, Lake Oval
            • Apr 2010
            • 2064

            Originally posted by liz
            That was probably true during the naughties (and maybe the nineties) but I guess less so in the last decade. Though Kennedy, Mumford and Shaw played most of their Swans footy in the 2010s, despite being recruited before the decade began.

            Since then our influx of players from other clubs has been limited by salary cap pressures and (to an extent) the trade ban. Those we've tried recently as "cheap" top ups to the squad (Lewis, Clarke, Brand, Gray) have been more hit than miss.

            Maybe the ruckmen buck the trend somewhat. Hickey has been invaluable, albeit we'll only have him for a brief period. Ladhams may deliver for longer. And while Sinclair was only ever an "OK" ruckman, he's given us lionhearted service over many years.

            Particularly in the 90s we had a steady flow of top draftees who deserted us - Grant, Rocca, the Richmond defender whose name deserts me. The outflow of fringe and middling players who have gone on to have good careers elsewhere feels more recent. Players like Phillips, Faulks, the injury-riddled Chapman didn't amount to much at their new clubs. But in the last decade we've experienced brief but promising outputs from Biggs and Murray, decent to excellent outputs from White, Nankervis, Newman, Jones, Cameron. I think it reflects well on our recruiters that they've identified so many players with latish ND and rookie draft picks who have formed the basis of our own team's success and contributed to others.
            The Richmond defender - Darren Gaspar I think?

            Comment

            • Roadrunner
              Senior Player
              • Jan 2018
              • 1464

              Originally posted by TheBloods
              Why be nasty , i was having a joke . Same as top of the page , i stick up for someone and in return get a smart arse comment aimed at me.
              Don’t take it to heart TB! Some of us just don’t get your sense of humour- I for one do and you’re always good for a chuckle????

              - - - Updated - - -

              Originally posted by Sandridge
              The Richmond defender - Darren Gaspar I think?
              Yep, he was the “traitor “ back then.

              Comment

              • Roadrunner
                Senior Player
                • Jan 2018
                • 1464

                Originally posted by O'Reilly Boy
                100% agree. I kept a very close watch on Bell v Essendon. Covers immense ground. Very, very disciplined. Helps the team to play with width and structure in a way that Ronke and Papley don't. Rarely beaten when the contest comes to him—and that is the key: he doesn't chase the ball. He holds the shape, runs both ways, and applies pressure.
                I’m happy you rate him O’Reilly Boy. I’ve been watching his games too, but come to a different conclusion. No one can deny that he gives 100% but for me his ball involvements are minimal. Of course, we all see things a bit differently and I truly wish him to succeed. Same goes for young Wicks. Many on here say they apply pressure to enable others space etc. As I’ve said before, the next 3 matches including tonight will show us where young Bell (and Wicks) are at.

                Comment

                • Ruck'n'Roll
                  Ego alta, ergo ictus
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 3990

                  Originally posted by TheBloods
                  Why be nasty , i was having a joke . Same as top of the page , i stick up for someone and in return get a smart arse comment aimed at me.
                  Nastyness, nah I don't see any nastiness, I do however see a slightly histrionic post.
                  Last edited by Ruck'n'Roll; 20 May 2022, 06:09 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Markwebbos
                    Veterans List
                    • Jul 2016
                    • 7186

                    Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
                    It might be an interesting off season (time wasting) activity to compile a list of players that have done better than expected after departing the Swans.
                    And those that haven’t (2 in particular come to mind). I’d also love to know of the players that left, how many the club really didn’t want to lose?

                    Comment

                    • 707
                      Veterans List
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 6204

                      Originally posted by Markwebbos
                      And those that haven’t (2 in particular come to mind). I’d also love to know of the players that left, how many the club really didn’t want to lose?
                      Carey and Longmire, but we needed the $10k we got for them!

                      Comment

                      • joeykanga
                        Warming the Bench
                        • Jul 2019
                        • 361

                        Originally posted by O'Reilly Boy
                        100% agree. I kept a very close watch on Bell v Essendon. Covers immense ground. Very, very disciplined. Helps the team to play with width and structure in a way that Ronke and Papley don't. Rarely beaten when the contest comes to him—and that is the key: he doesn't chase the ball. He holds the shape, runs both ways, and applies pressure.
                        Couldn't agree any more with you.

                        You've expressed my thoughts far more succinctly than what I have tried in a multitude of posts re James

                        - - - Updated - - -

                        Originally posted by Roadrunner
                        I’m happy you rate him O’Reilly Boy. I’ve been watching his games too, but come to a different conclusion. No one can deny that he gives 100% but for me his ball involvements are minimal. Of course, we all see things a bit differently and I truly wish him to succeed. Same goes for young Wicks. Many on here say they apply pressure to enable others space etc. As I’ve said before, the next 3 matches including tonight will show us where young Bell (and Wicks) are at.
                        The next 3 matches will show us where everyone's at

                        Comment

                        • Maltopia
                          Senior Player
                          • Apr 2016
                          • 1556

                          Originally posted by Markwebbos
                          And those that haven’t (2 in particular come to mind). I’d also love to know of the players that left, how many the club really didn’t want to lose?
                          Here is my thoughts for the last 15 or so years.

                          I won't include JPK as he was a young relatively unknown player at that stage.

                          Done better than expected after joining us:

                          Ted Richards
                          Andrejs Everitt
                          Darren Jolly

                          Done OK after joining us

                          Buddy - he was a star already and why we wanted him, he didn't play for us significantly better than he did for the Hawks (and even though he is still here at year 10, he missed 2019 and 2020).
                          Tippett
                          Bradshaw
                          Sinclair

                          Done less than expected after joining us

                          Sam Gray
                          Daniel Menzel
                          Lewis Taylor
                          Ryan Clarke

                          Done better after leaving us:

                          Jolly (won a premiership)
                          Mummy
                          Nankervis
                          Membrey
                          Aliir
                          Mitchell
                          Hewitt (so far)
                          Rohan (apart from injury this year)
                          Newman

                          Done ok after leaving us

                          Bird
                          Everitt

                          Done worse than expected after leaving us

                          Hanners
                          Malcheski
                          Jetta
                          Bird


                          I have missed a few trades, but I think overall, apart from Teddy Richards and JPK we have not really done well at the trades in terms of picking up a player who then played much better than we thought he could. But there are many more players who have left us and gone and done much better than when they were playing with us.

                          Comment

                          • goswannies
                            Senior Player
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 3049

                            Originally posted by Maltopia
                            Here is my thoughts for the last 15 or so years.

                            I won't include JPK as he was a young relatively unknown player at that stage.

                            Done better than expected after joining us:

                            Ted Richards
                            Andrejs Everitt
                            Darren Jolly

                            Done OK after joining us

                            Buddy - he was a star already and why we wanted him, he didn't play for us significantly better than he did for the Hawks (and even though he is still here at year 10, he missed 2019 and 2020).
                            Tippett
                            Bradshaw
                            Sinclair

                            Done less than expected after joining us

                            Sam Gray
                            Daniel Menzel
                            Lewis Taylor
                            Ryan Clarke

                            Done better after leaving us:

                            Jolly (won a premiership)
                            Mummy
                            Nankervis
                            Membrey
                            Aliir
                            Mitchell
                            Hewitt (so far)
                            Rohan (apart from injury this year)
                            Newman

                            Done ok after leaving us

                            Bird
                            Everitt

                            Done worse than expected after leaving us

                            Hanners
                            Malcheski
                            Jetta
                            Bird


                            I have missed a few trades, but I think overall, apart from Teddy Richards and JPK we have not really done well at the trades in terms of picking up a player who then played much better than we thought he could. But there are many more players who have left us and gone and done much better than when they were playing with us.
                            McGlynn? Shaw? Kennedy? Mattner? Mummy 1.0 (Mummy 2.0 was the Gw$ defection)
                            Last edited by goswannies; 20 May 2022, 07:06 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Maltopia
                              Senior Player
                              • Apr 2016
                              • 1556

                              Originally posted by goswannies
                              McGlynn? Shaw? Kennedy? Mattner? C.Bolton? Davis?
                              I did say I wasn't including JPK, but yes I agree on the McGlynn and Shaw for sure, I did say I missed some.

                              Comment

                              • Markwebbos
                                Veterans List
                                • Jul 2016
                                • 7186

                                I largely agree with you … but

                                What about Craig Bolton, Marty Mattner, Ben McGlynn reckon they turned out OK?

                                Think Rohan is as flawed for Geelong as he was for us.

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