Rnd 21, vs North Melbourne at Marvel, on Sunday 7 August, 1:10 PM

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  • Agent 86
    Senior Player
    • Aug 2004
    • 1686

    #46
    Originally posted by KTigers
    The guy with the headphones and sleeve stripe on his jacket looks like Troy to me. I used to know him a little.
    He corrected me one time when I shorted his games played total by one.
    I was pretty sure it was Luffy. Quite a distinctive snoz.

    Comment

    • bandwagon
      Regular in the Side
      • May 2003
      • 525

      #47
      Originally posted by Captain
      No way Ladhams should play. It’s no coincidence that we win more when he doesn’t play.
      7W-3L with Hickey in the team
      7W-4L with Ladhams in the team
      Ladhams has polled 15 coaches votes, Hickey zero this season.

      My opinion is that we need both of them match fit going into September.

      Comment

      • Maltopia
        Senior Player
        • Apr 2016
        • 1556

        #48
        Originally posted by Agent 86
        Okay, so it’s not whether you win or lose but how you play the game?

        But, anyway, my inner pedant was still not convinced.

        1653/1256 * 100 = 131.6
        1734/1336 * 100 = 129.8

        Or am I doing it wrong?

        But I get the point overall… when you’ve got a healthy percentage, a tight win means you’ll still lose percentage.
        Yep you have it right, except the 80-81 loss would be 1733/1337x100 = 129.6

        I had 127.7 which means I must have typed in 1357 (80-101 loss) in error.

        Comment

        • goswannies
          Senior Player
          • Sep 2007
          • 3049

          #49
          Originally posted by Agent 86
          Okay, so it’s not whether you win or lose but how you play the game?

          But, anyway, my inner pedant was still not convinced.

          1653/1256 * 100 = 131.6
          1734/1336 * 100 = 129.8

          Or am I doing it wrong?

          But I get the point overall… when you’ve got a healthy percentage, a tight win means you’ll still lose percentage.
          There’s perhaps even more to it than that. At the start of the season, wins and losses will have a bigger impact on percentage and percentage changes than later in the season, as the for & against scores are cumulative over the season. Also it’s not just a close loss, as a close loss in a lower scoring game has a bigger impact on percentage than a close loss in a higher scoring game early in the season, but this is progressively reversed as the season progresses.

          Let’s go to extremes with an unlikely hypothetical.

          Round 1 of the season: the Swans defeat GW$ in a low scoring affair 0.2(2) to 0.1(1), gives the Swans a percentage of 200%

          Same round, the Cats just get over the line against the Dees in a goal fest 30.21(201) to 30.20(200) giving Geelong a far less healthy % of 100.5.

          Same winning margin, vastly different impact on % at the very start of the season.

          Fast forward to the start of round 23. The Geelong and the Swans sit tied on top of the ladder the ladder. Incredibly, both have identical number of wins & losses with identical for/against points of 1786 for/1318 against, both having a percentage of 135.5%

          As luck would have it, the Swans play and defeat GW$ with an identical round 1 scoreline Syd 0.2(2) def GW$ 0.1(1). And astonishingly Geelong replicate their Round 1 scoreline against the Dees with a 201 to 200 victory!

          This gives Sydney 1788 for/1319 against and a slightly improved percentage of 135.6%. Geelong’s end of H&A percentage is 1987 for/1518 against giving a percentage of 130.9%

          There are a number of things we can take away from that improbable hypothetical:

          1) lower scoring matches have a much larger impact on % at the start of the season than at the end of the season because of the cumulative for/against ratio by the end of the season

          2) winning margins are more significant for lower scoring matches

          My example doesn’t show this as I would need more
          complexed hypotheticals, but a larger percentage requires much bigger wins to maintain it (ie a narrow win, if you have a high percentage will almost invariably cause your percentage to drop).
          Last edited by goswannies; 2 August 2022, 11:12 PM.

          Comment

          • 707
            Veterans List
            • Aug 2009
            • 6204

            #50
            Nice work goswannies.

            It's important to keep your opposition to a low score as the % boost is greater for the same margin where you keep the opposition score low, as we did against GWS.

            No changes this week, Kennedy medi sub again as he played a full reserves game.

            Comment

            • Mountain Man
              Regular in the Side
              • Feb 2008
              • 907

              #51
              There were 6 changes to the team that played last weekend to those playing against North earlier in the year

              Hickey for Ladhams
              Amarty for McLean
              Stephens for Campbell
              Clarke for Kennedy
              Papley for Bell
              Fox for Cunningham

              Looks stronger to me

              Comment

              • Faunac8
                Senior Player
                • Mar 2014
                • 1548

                #52
                Originally posted by Mountain Man
                There were 6 changes to the team that played last weekend to those playing against North earlier in the year

                Hickey for Ladhams
                Amarty for McLean
                Stephens for Campbell
                Clarke for Kennedy
                Papley for Bell
                Fox for Cunningham

                Looks stronger to me
                I tend to agree apart from Kennedy - Clarke but maybe that’s simply nostalgia

                Comment

                • 707
                  Veterans List
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 6204

                  #53
                  Norf set to make about 6 or 7 changes

                  Comment

                  • Markwebbos
                    Veterans List
                    • Jul 2016
                    • 7186

                    #54
                    Originally posted by 707
                    Norf set to make about 6 or 7 changes
                    Including the possible return of Cunnington

                    Comment

                    • TheBloods
                      Suspended by the MRP
                      • Feb 2020
                      • 2047

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Markwebbos
                      Including the possible return of Cunnington
                      No

                      He is in the VFL , first game back in a year . Good to see

                      Comment

                      • bloodspirit
                        Clubman
                        • Apr 2015
                        • 4448

                        #56
                        Originally posted by TheBloods
                        No

                        He is in the VFL , first game back in a year . Good to see
                        North Melbourne Roos faced with emotional decision on champion Ben Cunnington's return (afl.com.au)

                        "It’s probably going to be the VFL, even though we’d love it to be straight back in.
                        "Deep down I know he’d love to play seniors, particularly being a game in Melbourne this weekend and we travel next weekend.
                        All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

                        Comment

                        • Ludwig
                          Veterans List
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 9359

                          #57
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man
                          There were 6 changes to the team that played last weekend to those playing against North earlier in the year

                          Hickey for Ladhams
                          Amarty for McLean
                          Stephens for Campbell
                          Clarke for Kennedy
                          Papley for Bell
                          Fox for Cunningham

                          Looks stronger to me
                          The big difference is Papley in for Bell. A huge difference is more like it.

                          Clarke is not in the same league as Kennedy, but fills a more important role for us in that we have replaced our weakest link in defence with a shut down defensive forward. We've played a much stronger defensive game since Clarke took on this role.

                          More than player upgrades, the Swans have been looking more like a team with a real game plan, banking on solid defending to create turnovers to release a highly skilled and hard running offense.

                          Championship teams come out every week and play at a consistently high level. So it's really up to us how thing roll on this year. We are not dependent on a weak opposition to get us through.

                          Comment

                          • Aprilbr
                            Senior Player
                            • Oct 2016
                            • 1803

                            #58
                            Originally posted by bloodspirit
                            North Melbourne Roos faced with emotional decision on champion Ben Cunnington's return (afl.com.au)

                            "It’s probably going to be the VFL, even though we’d love it to be straight back in.
                            "Deep down I know he’d love to play seniors, particularly being a game in Melbourne this weekend and we travel next weekend.
                            Its great he is back but it would be a big ask for him to march straight back into the Seniors after not playing for 12 months. I think that would be throwing him to the wolves as he is not match hardened.

                            Comment

                            • stevoswan
                              Veterans List
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 8548

                              #59
                              Originally posted by TheBloods
                              No

                              He is in the VFL , first game back in a year . Good to see
                              Yep, happy to see him back after his battle.

                              Comment

                              • stellation
                                scott names the planets
                                • Sep 2003
                                • 9718

                                #60
                                Originally posted by Aprilbr
                                Its great he is back but it would be a big ask for him to march straight back into the Seniors after not playing for 12 months. I think that would be throwing him to the wolves as he is not match hardened.
                                Particularly after a calf concern and then Covid just a week ago. Great to see him return, and will be a big boost for Roos fans- but if he's been out for so long and they're keen for him return in Melbourne then surely give him 2 weeks in the magoos since they will be back in Melbourne in a fortnight to finish the season.
                                I knew him as a gentle young man, I cannot say for sure the reasons for his decline
                                We watched him fade before our very eyes, and years before his time

                                Comment

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