Sydney vs Collingwood Match Thread

[Agent 86]

Once again, comparing Goodes is entirely false equivalence. Adam was the victim of a racist agenda, largely pushed by high profile, right wing media types. Ginnivan is a victim of his own flagrant staging.

You’re correct. The underlying reasons for the booing are vastly different. But i don’t think that is the comparison being made here.

It’s more a generic observation on singling out players as villains & the potential for psychological impact.

I don’t like it & won’t do it - regardless of the reason.

[monopoly19]

That would be the staging for the free that was given against Paddy. Some are saying that it was justified, but I view it as more of a classic Selwood slump. That is, after rising with the ball, he immediately lowered his body when Paddy went for the tackle, pushed the arms up, to move contact from around forearm to head, then accentuated the seemingly minimal contact. If I remember rightly, Paddy's arm was about his own hip level, and by the look on his face, he seemed to think that he had been conned.

Of course, it may have been an entirely legitimate free, but since the AFL has given a directive to the umpires, to be aware of that method of milking frees, largely because Ginnivan ( and others) was exploiting it so often earlier in the season, I and many others, are not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Ridiculous. It was a free kick, not bad behaviour and certainly not worthy of continued booing.

A portion of our crowd has fallen for the media (and AFL) generated storm around Ginnivan and it’s just silly.

[dejavoodoo44]

Yes. He’s a kid. It’s not acceptable.

One thing I’ve noticed, McRae has backed him and basically said it’s a good thing if he gets a free kick. It makes me wonder if their coaching panel have encouraged it somewhat (disclaimer: just surmising here) - which I’d like to think isn’t the case.

I have also noticed one of our young guns has removed this behaviour from his repertoire lately. Could just be me… but I haven’t seen it so much.

I don't think making excuses for his staging, like saying that he's young, is going to stop him from staging. Nor will McRae backing him solve the problem. And I don't think people pretending that he isn't staging, or that pretending that opposition supporters are under some sort bizarre obligation not to express their displeasure, is going to solve the problem.

What I do think is an easy solution to the problem, is for people at Collingwood to tell him to modify his behaviour. If he can stop himself from throwing his head back when no contact has been made, or rapidly slumping to draw contact, then I feel sure that he will no longer get the reaction that he's currently getting. Perhaps the attention will then shift more to other flagrant stagers, like Weightman, but that's fine by me, because that might cause them to also change their approach.

[TheBloods]

I love the fact that at almost 60 years of age I can still learn.
My latest learning is that I have been using the word perception wrong for so many years
The definition of perception is the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.
That sounds like me to be evidence based rather than what my original belief in that it was influenced by the common consensus.
In fact what I probably should have referenced was an actual antonym of the word namely misconception.
So for the purposes of my previous posts please substitute misconception for perception.
My opinions however remain unchanged.

I thought i knew everything until i had grandkids . Now im learning half the words in the Merriam Webster were invented after they were born ! What hope do we have !

[Goal Sneak]

Ridiculous. It was a free kick, not bad behaviour and certainly not worthy of continued booing.

A portion of our crowd has fallen for the media (and AFL) generated storm around Ginnivan and it’s just silly.

I don't think it's ridiculous. Before the umpires were instructed to adapt the interpretation it would've been a free kick. He clearly raises his arm and lowers the body which has been instructed not to be paid, and it hasn't been, until this particular instance. Errol has changed his technique accordingly so I can't see why Ginnivan can't do the same.

[liz]

Ridiculous. It was a free kick, not bad behaviour and certainly not worthy of continued booing.

A portion of our crowd has fallen for the media (and AFL) generated storm around Ginnivan and it’s just silly.

Horse has commented, in a typical Horse manner.

Horse calls for respect after Ginnivan booing

I imagine the atmopshere that Goodes dealt with in the final year and a half of his career still feels pretty raw for Horse and others at the Swans. Regardless of the similarities or differences in the circumstances, he (Longmire) makes a pretty-easy-to-follow suggestion to fans.

[dejavoodoo44]

Ridiculous. It was a free kick, not bad behaviour and certainly not worthy of continued booing.

A portion of our crowd has fallen for the media (and AFL) generated storm around Ginnivan and it’s just silly.

Garbage, he has a well earned reputation for staging. It is not a figment of the fevered imagination of opposition fans. And if you're going to talk about media generated storms, the attention being given to his booing on Sunday, seems a bit over the top. The booing that he got when sitting on the bench was only really occurring late, when 7 were repeatedly showing shots of him for some reason. And the noise level suggested that it was only a very small minority of the crowd, possibly about 5% of the volume of the noise of disapproval, that is generated every time a free is given against West Coast in Perth? Actually, when he got his free, the booing was probably less, than the booing that a home Collingwood crowd, greet any free that's given against them. So, why the focus on the Swans crowd?

[liz]

I don't think it's ridiculous. Before the umpires were instructed to adapt the interpretation it would've been a free kick. He clearly raises his arm and lowers the body which has been instructed not to be paid, and it hasn't been, until this particular instance. Errol has changed his technique accordingly so I can't see why Ginnivan can't do the same.

I don't know that Errol has changed his technique so much as it was just not as ingrained into his game as it has become for Ginnivan and a few others. He always used it sparingly, and hasn't for a few weeks, but that's not to say he won't ever do it again. He also doesn't spend his time parked in the forward line, so he's involved in a wider range of plays than Ginnivan.

I suspect its currently a bit of a reflex action for Ginnivan and something that won't be easy for him to immediately stop.

We also have an AFL-led situation where fans have been decrying the Selwood-shrug for a decade or more, and the AFL ticked off on it, indicating it was a legitimate move worthy of being rewarded with a free kick. Even now the industry (fans, the media, coaches) seem split on whether deliberately playing for a few kick is smart or cheating. Furthermore, I reckon every single player who's played more than a handful of games would have "accentuated contact" on occasion to try and win a free kick. A sizeable number have done worse (eg thrown their head back in a contest even with no high contact, thrown their body forward in a marking contest).

I've never liked booing in any context at footy games, and don't partake. But I feel especially uncomfortable about one (or a couple) of players being singled out by crowds for something not that different to what most players have done at some stage of their career. Particularly while the industry is still working out whether it views this as legitimate or not.

For the record, I don't think frees should be paid to players who essentially cause the high contact to themselves, for safety reasons as much as any other. But I also think the AFL should do more to call out players who exaggerate contact to win illegitimate frees. It's a tough enough game for the umpires to umpire as it is.

[Maltopia]

I don't think it's ridiculous. Before the umpires were instructed to adapt the interpretation it would've been a free kick. He clearly raises his arm and lowers the body which has been instructed not to be paid, and it hasn't been, until this particular instance. Errol has changed his technique accordingly so I can't see why Ginnivan can't do the same.

Look at the photo from the Horse article.

Paddy has grabbed Ginnivan on top of his shoulder right next to his neck when Ginnivan is in a higher position (so Paddy is reaching up) before he raised his arm.

So any subsequent ducking and the raising of the arm had no impact on whether it was a free kick or not, Paddy had made contact to near the neck region already. The raising of the arm slightly in this instance certainly did not accentuate the contact to the neck.

This was a clear free kick.

[dejavoodoo44]

You’re correct. The underlying reasons for the booing are vastly different. But i don’t think that is the comparison being made here.

It’s more a generic observation on singling out players as villains & the potential for psychological impact.

I don’t like it & won’t do it - regardless of the reason.

Hmm, even though it may appear otherwise, I'm actually not much of a booer myself. And I'd certainly hate it if the Sydney crowd, became like the West Coast crowd and loudly and self-righteously booed every decision that went against them. It's more that I think that the controversy has largely been generated by his own actions, and that he can easily protect himself from any psychological harm, by no longer staging for frees. I mean, at a very basic level, the human brain is much like a thermostat, that receives both positive and negative feedback, and it then tends to adjust behaviour accordingly.

[dejavoodoo44]

Look at the photo from the Horse article.

Paddy has grabbed Ginnivan on top of his shoulder right next to his neck when Ginnivan is in a higher position (so Paddy is reaching up) before he raised his arm.

So any subsequent ducking and the raising of the arm had no impact on whether it was a free kick or not, Paddy had made contact to near the neck region already. The raising of the arm slightly in this instance certainly did not accentuate the contact to the neck.

This was a clear free kick.

Or possibly that contact was largely caused by prior lowering of his body by Ginnivan?

[Maltopia]

Or possibly that contact was largely caused by prior lowering of his body by Ginnivan?

I think you may be doubling down here.

Paddy is what, 6’4”? and he tackled Ginnivan from behind. He is always at risk of tackling too high when lunging at a much shorter player with his own arms raised above his own shoulder height.

The photo shows Ginnivan is near upright at the point of contact, and they replayed the free kick on slow motion and there did not appear to be lowering before contact.

[111431]

I think you may be doubling down here.

Paddy is what, 6’4”? and he tackled Ginnivan from behind. He is always at risk of tackling too high when lunging at a much shorter player with his own arms raised above his own shoulder height.

The photo shows Ginnivan is near upright at the point of contact, and they replayed the free kick on slow motion and there did not appear to be lowering before contact.

Paddy was at fault. Ginnivan did nothing wrong- let’s all move on

[snajik]

Yeah it was very poor from our supporters and quite frankly embarrassing . How quickly we forget when Goodes was being booed constantly .
The poor guy had just done a hamstring I thought our supporter base was above that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1. It was pissweak.

[stevoswan]

And during our game BT claimed the umpires were "three of the best in the business". I mean, are there any umpires the commentators
think aren't "the best in the business"? I've become a bit concerned this "best in the business" thing has become very diluted. To the
point now that it essentially means "pretty ****ing average".

+1