Hawthorn racism review

[707]

Yes, if the claims are found to be accurate, you get the feeling that North signing Clarkson, will not be the coup that they thought it was.

Just when we thought the Essendon coaching saga was the biggest chuckle in town, we get this, which could be a disaster for LOLNorf. Clarko of course doesn't take up his Norf gig until 1st November although he'd be having plenty of chats to them unofficially

I see Fagan has stepped aside for the present, Brisbane have a massive trade period to land Dunkley and get enough points for Ashcroft and Fletcher although Fagan probably wouldn't be involved in the intricacies of how the hell they manage that!

[Go Swannies]

I haven't checked but I think Queen's Counsel appointed during the reign of the Queen (not sure if I'm using the right terminology here) remain QCs. Just as there used to be KC's long into the reign of Queen Elizabeth II (I can't imagine there still could be (m)any practising).

My understanding is that all QCs would have woken up on Friday two weeks ago as KCs. Very vestigial Law School memory of that contained within the the Death of the Monarch Act, or some such.

[dejavoodoo44]

Just when we thought the Essendon coaching saga was the biggest chuckle in town, we get this, which could be a disaster for LOLNorf. Clarko of course doesn't take up his Norf gig until 1st November although he'd be having plenty of chats to them unofficially

I see Fagan has stepped aside for the present, Brisbane have a massive trade period to land Dunkley and get enough points for Ashcroft and Fletcher although Fagan probably wouldn't be involved in the intricacies of how the hell they manage that!

Yes, when I heard that Dunkley wanted to go to Brisbane, I did have a look at their current pick situation. If Ashcroft is bid on at number one, as predicted, they need 2,400 points to match the bid. The 2022 picks that they hold add up to 2,086 points. So, that looks to be challenging enough to land Ashcroft, let alone Dunkley and Fletcher. I assume they burn 2023 picks, or send a player or two to the Bulldogs? But I'm not really sure if Dunkley is good enough to make that a worthwhile exercise?

[bloodspirit]

I would like to see the AFL commission an independent inquiry into the experiences of former First Nations players at all AFL clubs, much as Hawthorn did with its own former players. Hopefully that way we can:

* see whether the patterns are across the industry or more certain organisations or individuals

* act to redress the issue comprehensively

* not have it all come out in dribs and drabs over years

* get more consistency in investigation and outcomes across the competition.

I'm still curious how this came to light. The report was delivered a couple of weeks ago. Someone has leaked it to....? ...the ABC? ....who then went on and did some further investigation themselves... which led to additional allegations emerging that didn't find their way into the Hawthorn report? Have I got that right?

No points to the AFL for moving into crisis mode today when the ABC broke the story but doing nothing (publicly) since 2 weeks ago, when they got the report.

[bloodspirit]

My understanding is that all QCs would have woken up on Friday two weeks ago as KCs. Very vestigial Law School memory of that contained within the the Death of the Monarch Act, or some such.

It turns out that, in Victoria at least, you're right: Postnominals for Queen's Counsel following the passing of Her Majesty Elizabeth II | Victorian Bar (vicbar.com.au).

[Go Swannies]

It turns out that, in Victoria at least, you're right: Postnominals for Queen's Counsel following the passing of Her Majesty Elizabeth II | Victorian Bar (vicbar.com.au).

-See Mum - six years at Law School (majoring in motorcycle racing) wasn't entirely wasted.

Back to the topic, I struggled through emotion as I read the ABC report this morning and told a friend that I can't see how anyone involved in this (including the Board if it had any knowledge, or should have) can keep their jobs.

[stevoswan]

Looks like Norf have signed up a real beauty in Clarko. If any of this is true, the guy should be blackballed from the game.



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-...view/101452320

I have heard a bit on the TV about all this today but to actually read these accounts makes horrific reading. Does not look good for Clarkson or Fagan.....and it is terribly disappointing that the club could even think this sort of approach to club 'success' was in any way acceptable. To manipulate young men and women and their relationships in this way is just terrible.

Gobsmacking arrogance and bigotry.

[stevoswan]

I thought something similar and was also reminded of Essendon's 'Whatever It Takes'. Time to remember this is only a game and there are - and should be - limits.

While high performance environments are typically and intentionally challenging, there need to be explicit reminders about the dangers and limits of pushing to the limits and not sliding past them. Another challenge (for every organisation) is to find a safe way to enable whistle-blowing.

***

Just in relation to the breaking news: I am encouraged that the AFL is going to appoint and independent, external group to review these allegations, and that the group will include Indigenous representation.

I'm also impressed that consideration is being given to standing Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan down pending the results of the investigation. I guess this is an easier decision to make on the eve of the off-season (although perhaps not given that it's also the eve of the trade period). I think that one relevant consideration is what might be the penalties if the allegations are sustained? Will there careers as coaches be ended (at least temporarily)? If so, then it seems appropriate to stand them down now. But if not, I don't think it's so appropriate.

Another thought is: while these allegations are horrifying, the conduct alleged does not appear to be criminal and it is concerning that terms which are taken from the criminal law, like 'complainant' and 'accused', are being used in the discussion. At this early stage my view is that while these allegations are highly relevant to the staff involved's ongoing involvement in the game, these incidents, even if admitted, do not make them criminals and they shouldn't be treated as criminals.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out and how much (if any) improvement the AFL shows compared to past incidents which they have just sought to manage serious incidents in the most pragmatic and commercial way possible using spin doctors.

Morally it is criminal.....just not by the law. If these allegations are true and I have no reason to believe they are not, both men should be removed from league service. Their behaviour is totally unacceptable. Also, Newbold should be removed from the Commission.

[aardvark]

Morally it is criminal.....just not by the law. If these allegations are true and I have no reason to believe they are not, both men should be removed from league service. Their behaviour is totally unacceptable. Also, Newbold should be removed from the Commission.

Coercing someone to have an abortion must be borderline criminal. I wonder if it will be referred to the law at some stage if proven?

[i'm-uninformed2]

Clarko's role at Norf now on hold too

Club Statement

[bloodspirit]

Coercing someone to have an abortion must be borderline criminal. I wonder if it will be referred to the law at some stage if proven?

From the reports I've seen it's actually coercing someone to coerce someone to have an abortion. I imagine that would be tricky to prosecute.

According to the statement, Clarko is not going to start work until 1 November 2022 and that's not going to change. However, from what we've been hearing and reading, Clarko's been up to his eyeballs in sounding out recruits for new staff and players to come to NMFC. Will that change? Might just fly a bit below the radar but keep going.

[aardvark]

Newbold has taken leave of absence.

[Mel_C]

When I read the reports this morning I was disgusted. Then I got angry thinking about how something like this could happen.

If the allegations are true then there needs to be consequences for those involved.

Can you imagine if Brisbane had won last week and were in the GF??

[Ludwig]

I wonder if there's anything in Clarkson's contract which would preclude him from getting his full 5 year payout even if the club is obliged not to let him be their coach. What would North do if they had to hire a new coach and still pay out Clarko his million plus a year?

[WomblingFree]

The allegations today are sickening.

And like many swans fans I am taken back to Adam Goodes’ treatment and how the Hawks’ fans and hierarchy lead that charge.

I have no faith whatsoever in the AFL “integrity” commission or anything they run pretending to be independent. The mere fact that this comes out in GF week, when we are focused on the GF, stinks to high heaven.

The whitewashing must stop. The cover ups must stop. The protection of mates must stop.

Nothing less than a public and independent full transparent enquirer run by a leading judge will suffice.