Hawthorn racism review

[111431]

You are entirely missing my fundamental point. What you have just said is about the media seeking a response to a media query - about a report which was damning but written without even giving those damned the opportunity to tell their side of the story. My point is that the report itself (ie the report the media were seeking comment on) should not have been completed without at least giving those directly implicated an opportunity to comment on the allegations against them. What the media did or didn't do is not my point - that's after the event.

I agree fully with this comment. I think it is reckless of the ABC to publish only one side of the story without the alleged guilty parties having had the opportunity to review the report and make an informed comment. I also think it is reckless of many on here to be commenting one way or the other without being fully informed

[KTigers]

I guess there can sometimes be a fine line between supporting young players relocating to a new environment and seeking to control them.

And in an environment like the AFL, there is a huge power imbalance between teenagers desperate to make their way in the sport and those who manage lists, pick teams etc. The more alien the AFL environment is to a young player and the less family support they have around them, the greater that imbalance is.

And it's a brutal industry that sells dreams to hundreds of teenagers every year, allows just a small fraction of those through the front gate each year, and then spits around half of those out before they've found their footing.

Controlling, supporting, it could be called either I guess. I get why the clubs do it. They've invested one of their team list spots and a
bunch of money on a young footballer and they would like it to work out. And I can see how lines might be crossed sometimes.
These are not perfect environments full of flawless people. Anyway, I guess we'll see how it all pans out.

[dejavoodoo44]

This is a dangerous take and you have missed the point. You might not like Clarko but if these claims were untrue why should he have to deal with this and have his career ruined? He will now be tarnished forever regardless of the result.

To suggest he had the hide of a rhino and therefore imply he will be fine is pretty tough to swallow. No idea how you know this.

His career isn't ruined. There's now a process in place to investigate the allegations. If the allegations are unfounded, then there's no real reason why he won't be allowed to coach again.

[Blood Fever]

His career isn't ruined. There's now a process in place to investigate the allegations. If the allegations are unfounded, then there's no real reason why he won't be allowed to coach again.

The fact that there is no real reason won't mean he will.

[dejavoodoo44]

I agree fully with this comment. I think it is reckless of the ABC to publish only one side of the story without the alleged guilty parties having had the opportunity to review the report and make an informed comment. I also think it is reckless of many on here to be commenting one way or the other without being fully informed

They were given an opportunity by Russell Jackson and the ABC to comment. Once again, investigative journalism shouldn't come to a halt, just because people named in the story decide not to comment.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that there is no real reason won't mean he will.

Nor won't.

[111431]

They were given an opportunity by Russell Jackson and the ABC to comment. Once again, investigative journalism shouldn't come to a halt, just because people named in the story decide not to comment.

- - - Updated - - -


Nor won't.

They may have been given a series of questions but, I don't think, they have had access to the full report. That is very important. I'm a big fan of the ABC but I believe they have been irresponsible publishing these allegations

[KTigers]

This is a dangerous take and you have missed the point. You might not like Clarko but if these claims were untrue why should he have to deal with this and have his career ruined? He will now be tarnished forever regardless of the result.

To suggest he had the hide of a rhino and therefore imply he will be fine is pretty tough to swallow. No idea how you know this.

Ah, well, it's my opinion obviously. We are on the interweb here man. It's where opinions get expressed. I don't dislike Clarko.
I think the only person I really dislike that is involved in footy is Sam Newman. I guess I think we're only at Day 2 of this
saga and it's a bit early to call on whether some coaching careers may be over.

[i'm-uninformed2]

They may have been given a series of questions but, I don't think, they have had access to the full report. That is very important. I'm a big fan of the ABC but I believe they have been irresponsible publishing these allegations

Just in the interests of clarity, the ABC story is not dependent on the report. The journalist apparently sought out and interviewed the players and their partners separately, and put questions to Clarko and Fagan based on those interviews.

The report was done as a cultural review and when it was received by Hawthorn, was given to the AFL - recognising there’d need to be a process to investigate them further, including giving those accused an opportunity to respond.

[Blood Fever]

Ah, well, it's my opinion obviously. We are on the interweb here man. It's where opinions get expressed. I don't dislike Clarko.
I think the only person I really dislike that is involved in footy is Sam Newman. I guess I think we're only at Day 2 of this
saga and it's a bit early to call on whether some coaching careers may be over.

Many in the media are already salivating at the prospect of him being finished. ABC used to be distinguished by its balance and journalistic ethics. These days has an obvious consistent agenda of gotcha stories in relation to racism, sexism and discrimination. All important issues but the stories only tell one side of the story and invariably assume guilt.

[dejavoodoo44]

They may have been given a series of questions but, I don't think, they have had access to the full report. That is very important. I'm a big fan of the ABC but I believe they have been irresponsible publishing these allegations

While I have no real idea of how the Russell Jackson story came about, it seems to me that the most likely scenario, is that he was probably approached by people who participated in the internal Hawthorn report and who may have got the feeling that report was in the process of being buried. If that's the case, then Russell Jackson and the ABC, would then have to evaluate whether they believed what the three couples were saying in their interviews. If they thought that their stories were true, then not publishing would have led to probably quite justified accusations of cowardice or paternalism. And apparently, there is some sort of email and phone trail that backs up their allegations.

Anyway, that's all just assumption on my part, but I don't really have much time for alternative scenarios, like: a respected, high quality journalist is just making crap up; or that he's being taken in by three ex-Hawthorn players and their partners, who for some unexplained reason, have decided to run a coordinated and vindictive campaign against their former employer.

[Blood Fever]

While I have no real idea of how the Russell Jackson story came about, it seems to me that the most likely scenario, is that he was probably approached by people who participated in the internal Hawthorn report and who may have got the feeling that report was in the process of being buried. If that's the case, then Russell Jackson and the ABC, would then have to evaluate whether they believed what the three couples were saying in their interviews. If they thought that their stories were true, then not publishing would have led to probably quite justified accusations of cowardice or paternalism. And apparently, there is some sort of email and phone trail that backs up their allegations.

Anyway, that's all just assumption on my part, but I don't really have much time for alternative scenarios, like: a respected, high quality journalist is just making crap up; or that he's being taken in by three ex-Hawthorn players and their partners, who for some unexplained reason, have decided to run a coordinated and vindictive campaign against their former employer.

We haven't had a chance to evaluate any possible alternative scenarios yet. Clarkson vehemently denies the charges. For all his faults, never thought of him as being dishonest. At the very least, let's wait and see what his defence is. Not that it will necessarily save his career.

[Maltopia]

The allegations seem outrageous by any normal persons standards and completely out of character for the two main protagonists named, regardless of your personal opinion of them.

I am sorry caj23, but do you know Clarke and Pagan personally, particularly during the period in question? Can you please describe their character to me? They appear to be broadly normal people? Good people can also do things which are out of character when they are under stress.

Most of us on this site only know Clarke and Fagan by what we have seen on the TV, and we only know their public coaching face, and not what they do inside the club. I am not saying they have done it, but it is impossible for someone who hasn't interacted them personally over many years to know their character, and thus whether an action is then, in or out of character.

There are psychologists who say that an 'out of character' defence is a false argument (when arguing for leniency at sentencing, or when asking a partner for forgiveness after a one night stand), because the vulnerability to do bad thing exist in that person's character, otherwise they wouldn't have done the act at all.

The idea that coaches would ask to take your SIM card as a means from removing a person from their family seems preposterous and nonsensical

The allegations which are preposterous and nonsensical to you, are not surprising to respected First Nations people, including Eddie Betts and Ben Abbatangelo. An act of evil sounding too preposterous to be true, is not a defence that it didn't happen, just the same as an allegation of evil doing is only an allegation until proven to be true..

I am not saying Fagan and Clarke have done it, and they have a right of reply. There are cases of false accusation, or embellishment of the truth.

Some may call this trial by media, but however, when three unrelated families have given their side of the story (with reference to emails and diary entries), it is sounding to me that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Only time (and further investigations) will tell us whether that somewhere in the middle is closer to what the former players and families are alleging or Clarke's strong denial.

[Maltopia]

Fagan has now also released a statement saying he strongly denies the allegations.

[Markwebbos]

Doesn't necessarily make the claims true, of course, but I'm sure that they would have sought to establish, that there's reasonable grounds to believe the claims and that publishing could be in the public interest.

I work for the ABC, although not as a journo. They’d have given Clarko, Fagan etc the right to reply to a list of written questions covering the allegations.

That gave them an opportunity to defend themselves prior to the article being published. It also gave them a heads up that these allegations will be aired in public.

The ABC is reporting the content of the report straight, without owning it. So it doesn’t need to verify the truth of the claims, only that they have been made.

- - - Updated - - -

Fagan has now also released a statement saying he strongly denies the allegations.

If he’d done that when the ABC invited him, they would had to include it in the story. Not sure why he didn’t issue a denial then?

[Blood Fever]

Fagan has now also released a statement saying he strongly denies the allegations.

Understand why the complainants names have been kept confidential. Not sure why the same doesn't apply to Fagan and Clarkson until the allegations are tested through an independent investigation.