Hawthorn racism review

[stevoswan]

It will no doubt be a terribly unfashionable comment to make, but I do this stuff for a living. I am extremely uncomfortable with the fact that this report has been published without, according to the reports, Clarkson, Fagan or Burt being even spoken to. Maybe the allegations are 100% true, maybe they're not. But to publish a report like this - and potentially destroy careers - without even speaking with those directly implicated, is frankly horrendous. If any of us were thinking of ourselves or anyone we cared about we would want something fairer than that.

As it happens, I detest Clarkson. I detest Newbold. I think both were beyond abysmal during the Goodes saga (and I was there, and positively nauseous, that awful day at the MCG). The Hawthorn Football Club was pathetic and its key figures were pathetic. In a way I rejoice in their suffering. But two wrongs do not make a right and the way this is unfolding is simply not right.

Horrendous?! Seriously, what do you think Clarkson and Fagen would have contributed to this review? They both would have deflected and obstructed any meaningful progress in this area....just like they have done since the review was made public. Their side of the story would have likely been complete BS. If a review is to find out how First Nations players were treated, it only has to talk to First Nations people.....not their Caucasian minders.

"Maybe the allegations are 100% true" FFS, why wouldn't they be? Why would any First Nations player lie about this stuff? Why would they make this stuff up when they have seen how Adan Goodes was treated when he brought stuff up? I have no reason whatsoever to not believe that these allegations are true. It just doesn't make sense that they aren't.

"the way this is unfolding is simply not right" How else should it have unfolded? How do you think this would have gone down if one or more of these players just came out and had a press conference and laid it all out on the table? It's unfolded like this because Hawthorn have sat on this report for two weeks....and a responsible news service decided to do some of their own research to force the club to come clean about this report.

I think it has unfolded quite beautifully. The spotlight is now rightly on these Caucasian minders and their behaviour in the treatment of First Nations players. They now have the right to defend themselves and the public can judge their responses. All I hope is that the league's own review is fair dinkum and thorough and that its response reflects community expectations.

Of course, 'community expectations' is fraught with problems.....in that some of our community ARE racist or at least are excusers and enablers of racism.....but we have to assume that the league is not. Time will tell.

[Maltopia]

Understand why the complainants names have been kept confidential. Not sure why the same doesn't apply to Fagan and Clarkson until the allegations are tested through an independent investigation.

It's like the Christian Porter affair. The nature of the allegations are that the senior coach and senior assistant coach (and the player development officer?) etc said or did this. Their role at the club makes the allegations more serious, than say if the team runner tried to exert control/influence over a young player.

The article would infer enough that it was Clarke and Pagan etc though stating the roles of the people who did the alleged actions, and people would then say, why didn't you just name the individuals instead of talking in circles?

[Blood Fever]

Horrendous?! Seriously, what do you think Clarkson and Fagen would have contributed to this review? They both would have deflected and obstructed any meaningful progress in this area....just like they have done since the review was made public. Their side of the story would have likely been complete BS. If a review is to find out how First Nations players were treated, it only has to talk to First Nations people.....not their Caucasian minders.

"Maybe the allegations are 100% true" FFS, why wouldn't they be? Why would any First Nations player lie about this stuff? Why would they make this stuff up when they have seen how Adan Goodes was treated when he brought stuff up? I have no reason whatsoever to not believe that these allegations are true. It just doesn't make sense that they aren't.

"the way this is unfolding is simply not right" How else should it have unfolded? How do you think this would have gone down if one or more of these players just came out and had a press conference and laid it all out on the table? It's unfolded like this because Hawthorn have sat on this report for two weeks....and a responsible news service decided to do some of their own research to force the club to come clean about this report.

I think it has unfolded quite beautifully. The spotlight is now rightly on these Caucasian minders and their behaviour in the treatment of First Nations players. They now have the right to defend themselves and the public can judge their responses. All I hope is that the league's own review is fair dinkum and thorough and that its response reflects community expectations.

Of course, 'community expectations' is fraught with problems.....in that some of our community ARE racist or at least are excusers and enablers of racism.....but we have to assume that the league is not. Time will tell.

The hanging judge

[stevoswan]

This abc investigation didn’t just happen this week, it would’ve been weeks, or maybe even months in the making

Why give Clarkson and co just 24 hours to respond? Why didn’t they request a formal interview with them? Particularly when they were not part of the process for the initial report

Given the extreme nature of the allegations, it strikes me as ACA gotcha journalism

The allegations seem outrageous by any normal persons standards and completely out of character for the two main protagonists named, regardless of your personal opinion of them.

The idea that coaches would ask to take your SIM card as a means from removing a person from their family seems preposterous and nonsensical

Their careers and lives are in tatters from unsubstantiated accusations provided by anonymous sources and haven’t been provided any real opportunity to defend themselves. They’ve already been deemed guilty by the moral majority

If the allegations turn out to be true, then those involved deserve punishment, but this is trial by social media and it’s pretty unsavoury

Why do people keep coming out with that old chestnut "If the allegations are true"?

So you actually believe that these First Nations players and their partners are just making @@@@ up? You really believe that?

I'm sorry but what does say about you?

[Blood Fever]

It's like the Christian Porter affair. The nature of the allegations are that the senior coach and senior assistant coach (and the player development officer?) etc said or did this. Their role at the club makes the allegations more serious, than say if the team runner tried to exert control/influence over a young player.

The article would infer enough that it was Clarke and Pagan etc though stating the roles of the people who did the alleged actions, and people would then say, why didn't you just name the individuals instead of talking in circles?

Porter is an ordinary right wing individual but his career was destroyed after he denied the allegations and was never even charged. Guilty until proven innocent.

[Blood Fever]

Why do people keep coming out with that old chestnut "If the allegations are true"?

So you actually believe that these First Nations players and their partners are just making @@@@ up? You really believe that?

I'm sorry but what does say about you?

So, in your book, every single allegation against somebody is true? Recipe for a nightmare scenario in any society.

[stevoswan]

Totally agreed caj. Surely ALL people should have been in interviewed. This reeks of sensationalism and gutter journalism. Not sure why the ABC resorts to this- they look to vilify people, it seems. Their hounding of Cardinal Pell is a prime example.

Not an ABC fan? Why shouldn't they investigate this stuff?

"Reeks of sensationalism and gutter journalism" That is a nonsense statement which sounds like something SkyNews would say. I'd call it responsible and brave journalism. Hawthorn sitting on this for 2 weeks reeks of preparing a defence of the indefensible and not actually attempting change for the better.

[stevoswan]

I agree fully with this comment. I think it is reckless of the ABC to publish only one side of the story without the alleged guilty parties having had the opportunity to review the report and make an informed comment. I also think it is reckless of many on here to be commenting one way or the other without being fully informed

You mean 'without the guilty parties having time to come up with denials, excuses and deflection'?

BTW, you're commenting. Have you been 'fully informed'?

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They may have been given a series of questions but, I don't think, they have had access to the full report. That is very important. I'm a big fan of the ABC but I believe they have been irresponsible publishing these allegations

I don't. I think we all know how things can be buried or just swept under the carpet. This now won't and that's good.

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Many in the media are already salivating at the prospect of him being finished. ABC used to be distinguished by its balance and journalistic ethics. These days has an obvious consistent agenda of gotcha stories in relation to racism, sexism and discrimination. All important issues but the stories only tell one side of the story and invariably assume guilt.

Gotcha stories that turn out to be true in most, if not all cases. It matters little how you get to the truth....just that you actually get to the truth.

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We haven't had a chance to evaluate any possible alternative scenarios yet. Clarkson vehemently denies the charges. For all his faults, never thought of him as being dishonest. At the very least, let's wait and see what his defence is. Not that it will necessarily save his career.

As if he is going to come out and say 'yeah, that stuff is true....but we lived in different times back then"?

[Maltopia]

So, in your book, every single allegation against somebody is true? Recipe for a nightmare scenario in any society.

Yes, allegations are only allegations until proven as true facts.

However, First Nations (and all minorities) experience allegations all the time without any right of reply, every time they are treated with suspicion by neighbours or police when going about their every day business, when detained without charges etc. The privileged get a right of reply, the downtrodden don't. Clark and Fagan will hire very expensive legal representatives to defend their reputation and refute the claims. The First Nations players don't have the resources or the voice, except through the 'fortune' of the review being initiated and then the ABC interviewing the families/players involved.

Have a listen to this interview all the way to the end with AIME's Deputy CEO, Ben Abbatangelo

AFL Rocked By Review Into Racism Towards Hawthorn First Nations Players - Network Ten

[stevoswan]

Fagan has now also released a statement saying he strongly denies the allegations.

Of course he has. Means nothing.....

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Understand why the complainants names have been kept confidential. Not sure why the same doesn't apply to Fagan and Clarkson until the allegations are tested through an independent investigation.

I believe the Adam Goodes experience tells you everything you need to know about why their names have been kept confidential. I would have thought that was pretty obvious.

[Blood Fever]

Of course he has. Means nothing.....

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I believe the Adam Goodes experience tells you everything you need to know about why their names have been kept confidential. I would have thought that was pretty obvious.

Read the first line of my post

[stevoswan]

The hanging judge

Seriously, if I had my way I'd hang every racist on the planet.

[stevoswan]

Read the first line of my post

Yeah...fair enough BF. I misread.

[Blood Fever]

Yeah...fair enough BF. I misread.

No drama

[KTigers]

However, First Nations (and all minorities) experience allegations all the time without any right of reply, every time they are treated with suspicion by neighbours or police when going about their every day business, when detained without charges etc. The privileged get a right of reply, the downtrodden don't. Clark and Fagan will hire very expensive legal representatives to defend their reputation and refute the claims. The First Nations players don't have the resources or the voice, except through the 'fortune' of the review being initiated and then the ABC interviewing the families/players involved.

Yep, drive around Redfern or Waterloo sometime and have a look at who the coppers have bailed up. I'm yet to see them confronting a
well-dressed white bloke. Man, there's a lot of outrage on here about a couple of multi millionaire successful football coaches whose
careers may now be "besmirched". What, like Tex Walker's career was ended? Pretty sure I saw he got a bunch of Brownlow votes.
Or do they give them out to people who didn't play. And he admitted what he said. And what happened to him in end? Nothing.
Not much concern for the young players who get cut from "The Family Club" and walk out with nothing.