Match thread. THE GRAND FINAL!!! Swans v Cats.

[Matty10]

The world judges everything in hindsight and as a result we keep hearing bold statements that purport to be fact when they are still only opinion. The analysis of the Grand Final (due to the nature of there being no further data to analyse) is seemingly something that cannot be challenged. However, statements like the following should not be taken at face value simply because of the outcome:

- Geelong would have beaten whoever they played in the Grand Final.
- The Swans were physically exhausted from the season and had no run left.

Can we really imagine there were no circumstances under which Geelong would fail? Did the two weeks off really give the Swans no respite or ability to fully compete in the two subsequent games?

I wonder what would have happened had Geelong lost their first game to Collingwood, which really could have gone either way. Would they then have had the mental fortitude and steeliness that they showed on the weekend or would the old mental demons from previous finals campaigns have reappeared and sapped their resolve?

I also wonder what would have happened to Geelong had they encountered greater resistance from the Swans. Did the confidence of the Cats grow throughout the game as a result of our performance and might they have faltered if we had asked more questions of them?

Can we really imagine there were no circumstances under which the Swans would win? It is a wonder that we won any games at all, if that were the case.

The narrative that we ran out of steam would make more sense if we were unable to compete in the last quarter rather than from the first. Surely there were other issues at play. For example, why did we set up at stoppages so poorly? Why were we unable to correct this during the game? Why wasn't anyone able to show some on-field leadership? It looks like we were overawed by the occasion, but who really knows. Were we also overawed by the occasion when we played Gold Coast or Port Adelaide or was something else at play there too?

It might not be possible to fully answer all of these questions, even if many people think they can. However, I think the idea that what occurred on the weekend was inevitable is a self-serving proposition for whatever analysis is subsequently provided.

[barracuda]

Matty10, of course there is a lot in play, but the out of gas theory has a lot of weight. The telltale sign was the last quarter of the collingwood game. The swans only went well in the last quarter in the GF because the game was over. We know the swans were good enough to win, they won 18 games, and look how they beat geelong earlier in the year when they were not gassed. I don't criticize the coaches for running a plan to keep the same team all the way through. It makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately it didn't quite get there and I think with a few tweaks on resting players next year they should be able to address it.

[MattW]

The world judges everything in hindsight and as a result we keep hearing bold statements that purport to be fact when they are still only opinion. The analysis of the Grand Final (due to the nature of there being no further data to analyse) is seemingly something that cannot be challenged. However, statements like the following should not be taken at face value simply because of the outcome:

- Geelong would have beaten whoever they played in the Grand Final.
- The Swans were physically exhausted from the season and had no run left.

Can we really imagine there were no circumstances under which Geelong would fail? Did the two weeks off really give the Swans no respite or ability to fully compete in the two subsequent games?

I wonder what would have happened had Geelong lost their first game to Collingwood, which really could have gone either way. Would they then have had the mental fortitude and steeliness that they showed on the weekend or would the old mental demons from previous finals campaigns have reappeared and sapped their resolve?

I also wonder what would have happened to Geelong had they encountered greater resistance from the Swans. Did the confidence of the Cats grow throughout the game as a result of our performance and might they have faltered if we had asked more questions of them?

Can we really imagine there were no circumstances under which the Swans would win? It is a wonder that we won any games at all, if that were the case.

The narrative that we ran out of steam would make more sense if we were unable to compete in the last quarter rather than from the first. Surely there were other issues at play. For example, why did we set up at stoppages so poorly? Why were we unable to correct this during the game? Why wasn't anyone able to show some on-field leadership? It looks like we were overawed by the occasion, but who really knows. Were we also overawed by the occasion when we played Gold Coast or Port Adelaide or was something else at play there too?

It might not be possible to fully answer all of these questions, even if many people think they can. However, I think the idea that what occurred on the weekend was inevitable is a self-serving proposition for whatever analysis is subsequently provided.

Exactly. Thank you.

[Blood Fever]

Matty10, of course there is a lot in play, but the out of gas theory has a lot of weight. The telltale sign was the last quarter of the collingwood game. The swans only went well in the last quarter in the GF because the game was over. We know the swans were good enough to win, they won 18 games, and look how they beat geelong earlier in the year when they were not gassed. I don't criticize the coaches for running a plan to keep the same team all the way through. It makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately it didn't quite get there and I think with a few tweaks on resting players next year they should be able to address it.

We certainly looked off the pace. That said, I was at the game and have never seen a more complete performance by an opposition. Physically imposing and almost error free.

[barry]

It was such an unusual result, something must have been up in the swans camp.
I know grand finals can blow out because once a team can't win, the give up a bit, and the team winning is riding a massive shot of euphoria. But we're we blown out of the game by 1/4 time. Totally against all expected form.

Something was up.

- - - Updated - - -

A real thorough review of our grand final prep needs to be done, and general season planning to be at maximum performance in September.

[TheBloods]

I've been thinking carefully about why we lost so badly. The single biggest reason is the fatigue of our players on the day. The coaches during the year had the very tricky job of balancing team performance and ultimate ladder position with the freshness of the team. Unsurprisingly the players in the GF who played out the game well (chad aside) were the players aged in their mid 20s; Fox, Parker, and Clarke. Also Fox and Clarke had only played a portion of the year in seniors and so were peaking. The older players and the younger players were all gassed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but clearly Mcinerney, Gulden, Buddy, Rampe, Blakey, Tom Mccartin etc all should have been managed during the year. I can only speculate that the coaches felt the ladder position was so finely poised they had to play their best team every week and hope they could hold up to a finals campaign. If this is the case then this was a reasonable decision.

My biggest learning from the year would probably to rest players more, and to include some of the fringe players more. For example I am sure Taylor and Cunningham could have done as well as Mcinerney did in many of the games and could have been rotated through. The other downside of not rotating players was the lack of depth when the injuries and suspensions happened. Reid had to play, Mcinerney was perhaps injured, McLean played after not playing at AFL level for a long time.

Perhaps next year is an opportunity to take a more holistic view of the squad and spread the load a little more despite the risk to the ladder position. As the coach of geelong went to great lengths to say, it takes the full squad to win a flag and they could not have done it without everyone.

They had 2 weeks off in finals and the bye during the year . Excuses

[Kafka's Ghost]

We certainly looked off the pace. That said, I was at the game and have never seen a more complete performance by an opposition. Physically imposing and almost error free.

Ditto. Geelong had planned this Premiership assault like the D-Day landings, but like the landings, could have all gone awry at the first outing against Collingwood.
Agree it was the most complete performance I’ve ever seen by an AFL team.


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[royboy42]

They had 2 weeks off in finals and the bye during the year . Excuses

Maybe reasons rather than excuses?
Regardless, your main solutions seem to be to get rid of one of our most consistent and embedded midfielders, and to introduce two youngsters untried at this level?
This to a side that won 18 games and, against the odds, made a grand final.
I see a developing side that exceeded expectations in 2022, and which will excite us and further develop in 2023/4.

[Dow]

I can see HHK at HF instead of Clarke- he is a skilful player and so poses a bigger threat to defenders. Clarke has been good at negating a defender but attacking the scoreboard is the best defence imho. A big pre-season is what he needs.

Agree and pray he hope pans out but I think he is along way off a regular spot maybe 2 more preseasons he’s just not in games for long enough YET

[TheBloods]

Maybe reasons rather than excuses?
Regardless, your main solutions seem to be to get rid of one of our most consistent and embedded midfielders, and to introduce two youngsters untried at this level?
This to a side that won 18 games and, against the odds, made a grand final.
I see a developing side that exceeded expectations in 2022, and which will excite us and further develop in 2023/4.

Yes , were we not watching the same game ?

[Auntie.Gerald]

latest rumour i have heard re the Swans not turning up was:

The Dutch rider Mathieu van der Poel was in the crowd at the MCG with a blow dart and bottle of ritalin

He was still trying to find the kids that were doing knock and runs on his hotel door in the middle of the night..........unfortunately he snipered a few Swans players

obviously

[dimelb]

Heeney, I'm not sure what to think, but I reckon he sustained a bit of damage when Steven May gave him a whack in the game against Melbourne. He hasn't been the same since.

I saw this too and (from my television snatch) it looked like an authentic head shot but no umpire picked it up

[i'm-uninformed2]

A bit off topic but . . . I finally caught a bit of Robbie William's pre game (must have been off having a nervous moment on Saturday).

What a flabby, mail it in, half-arsed performance. Can't believe Gil paid $1m+ for that. My wife's 70s cover band would give it more of a serious shake.

[Mark26]

They had 2 weeks off in finals and the bye during the year . Excuses

I'm going to quote something someone said very recently in another thread: "Believe it or not footy is about more than 1 game it is about the whole year and the work they put in on the way ." Oh wait ... It's you! If you're capable of it, take your own advice.

[TheBloods]

I'm going to quote something someone said very recently in another thread: "Believe it or not footy is about more than 1 game it is about the whole year and the work they put in on the way ." Oh wait ... It's you! If you're capable of it, take your own advice.

They arent the same . Problems in the team will always get exposed on GF day against the best , we ignored ours for too long . Best and fairest night is about the whole year