2023 List Management

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Who was the pick 1 you’re talking about?
If you’re thinking Gaspar, you’re wrong. He was drafted in 93, and left after, and the draft package was granted before that.

Yes I was thinking Gaspar, and you are quite correct in that particular. The chronology of his leaving is as you say.

I should have been clearer, I meant to suggest that Gaspar was part of a pre-existing Swans player retention issue - an issue I believe both teams have/had.
Do you agree with that similarity?
Or with the other similarities listed between North and us with regard deplorable player development, club management and supporter bases?

If so then, then the "No comparison" assertion doesn't fly - and that the massively more generous concessions given to the Swans should give none of us grounds for getting our noses bent out of joint over North's concessions.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Impressive memory! I think I've blocked out that part of our history.

I try to, I think we blew all of those national draft concessions of ludicrous trades for mediocre talent and draftees that wouldn't come at all or bailed asap. Bad times, but it's always darkest before the dawn - and the new day included 2 flags.

[lwjoyner]

hopefully ireland and deboer now on commission these draft favours might stop for under performing vic clubs.

[sharp9]

Interestingly Caroline Wilson has been slamming Grundy for choosing Sydney. She thinks he is picking the town over our club. What a bitter and twisted person she is.

OK that’s offensive and not on. She is one of the very best footy writers - especially for off field stuff. She is almost always balanced and has had to deal with Craig Hutchinson’s bullying for years. I notice that he is no longer doing it. Anyway that comment is way out of line. She is not bitter she has, generally, a very sunny outlook. I happen to think that she is wrong on this point, but leave th personal, unfounded attacks out if it.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Yes I was thinking Gaspar, and you are quite correct in that particular. The chronology of his leaving is as you say.

I should have been clearer, I meant to suggest that Gaspar was part of a pre-existing Swans player retention issue - an issue I believe both teams have/had.
Do you agree with that similarity?
Or with the other similarities listed between North and us with regard deplorable player development, club management and supporter bases?

If so then, then the "No comparison" assertion doesn't fly - and that the massively more generous concessions given to the Swans should give none of us grounds for getting our noses bent out of joint over North's concessions.

Kind of.

I think there are two major differences. We're now in an era of professional football clubs - with the capacity to properly fund and manage talent identification, recruitment, development and retention. What the Swans would have had back in the early 90s was amateurish compared to what North has at its disposal today, even as a minnow club. And for example, the lack of support they provided to a young, rookie coach in Shaw, with the added pressure of COVID bubbles, was unforgivable.

I also think the Swans of that era weren't actively seeking to dive to the bottom of the ladder. Norf made that choice a few years ago. They get high draft picks accordingly. Throwing bonus ones at them, when they've shown no capacity to take advantage of the ones they have had - that's a cop out for me.

Then there are two other elements of this that are weird to me. Good on Norf for going after Clarko and this year was unfortunate. But they're going to have him for a full season next year so let that play out. And then how the AFL can say - next year's picks are conditional, but you can trade them . . . ??

[Bloods05]

OK that’s offensive and not on. She is one of the very best footy writers - especially for off field stuff. She is almost always balanced and has had to deal with Craig Hutchinson’s bullying for years. I notice that he is no longer doing it. Anyway that comment is way out of line. She is not bitter she has, generally, a very sunny outlook. I happen to think that she is wrong on this point, but leave th personal, unfounded attacks out if it.

+1, as noted earlier.

[Blood Fever]

OK that’s offensive and not on. She is one of the very best footy writers - especially for off field stuff. She is almost always balanced and has had to deal with Craig Hutchinson’s bullying for years. I notice that he is no longer doing it. Anyway that comment is way out of line. She is not bitter she has, generally, a very sunny outlook. I happen to think that she is wrong on this point, but leave th personal, unfounded attacks out if it.

Definitely not bitter and twisted but no saint either. Not sure sunny is accurate as well.Patrick Cripps might disagree. She falsely accused him of staying in a hotel separately from the team during the season. Haven't heard an apology.

[lwjoyner]

swans late with any ist changes. Note GWS has mad a couple.

[dejavoodoo44]

swans late with any ist changes. Note GWS has mad a couple.

Generally we seem to announce delistings later than most clubs. Maybe management just likes to let all the players enjoy the start of their holidays?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Then there are two other elements of this that are weird to me. Good on Norf for going after Clarko and this year was unfortunate. But they're going to have him for a full season next year so let that play out. And then how the AFL can say - next year's picks are conditional, but you can trade them . . . ??

The AFL's action's on this and most other occasions is the sort of thing you'd expect from an entitled (and almost incestious) boys club, that operates a monopoly and makes all it's decisions after a liquid lunch. So no argument there.

I also think the Swans of that era weren't actively seeking to dive to the bottom of the ladder. Norf made that choice a few years ago. They get high draft picks accordingly.

I'm very unsure about North tanking, they completely failed to hold onto last spot in the final round. And although I didn't watch them much I didn't hear any nonsense positioning or unseemly rush to to surgeons table. So I'm wondering whether their plunge to the bottom wasn't tanking.

Throwing bonus ones at them, when they've shown no capacity to take advantage of the ones they have had - that's a cop out for me.

I think the AFL would be quite keen on North trading them for competent players rather than forming a talent crache that they won't develope properly. That's a supposition (see above regarding AFL thinking) but to draw a comparison with our own past. We got far better service from Scott Watters and Ed Considine etal than we got from Spinks and Gaspar.

What the Swans would have had back in the early 90s was amateurish compared to what North has at its disposal today, even as a minnow club.

Absolutely agree, the scale is completely different, in both what the Swans were facing and what they received. I duess I don't see scale as a proscriptive when drawing similarities.

And for example, the lack of support they provided to a young, rookie coach in Shaw, with the added pressure of COVID bubbles, was unforgivable.

Again I didn't follow this well, but thought that was caused by the Bradshaw, Archer board war. Unprofessional and unforgivable. But I understand that war ended? Like the Swans private ownership did when we got bailed out in the 90's.

PS - Thankyou very much for this discourse. It's been great to get my brainbox going for a bit.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I'm very unsure about North tanking, they completely failed to hold onto last spot in the final round. And although I didn't watch them much I didn't hear any nonsense positioning or unseemly rush to to surgeons table. So I'm wondering whether their plunge to the bottom wasn't tanking.


PS - Thankyou very much for this discourse. It's been great to get my brainbox going for a bit.

Not at all, it's good fun.

And just in case I wasn't clear, I wasn't accusing Norf of active tanking, the way say Melbourne did a decade ago. As you say, the last round match proves that (and also suggests they'll benefit from a full season with Clarko).

More, I was trying to make the point they made an active decision as far as five years back - around the time Brad Scott exited - to do a big rebuild. The compensation for that is access to high end draft picks, which they have had.

I think what bugs me is I see no real commitment to a fix. They all but openly said we're happy to let McKay go if we get pick 3. Why? You've got a very good tall defender. You're going to be guaranteed a better one in maybe five years with pick three? It's just locking the club into a cycle of mediocrity.

[BRS328]

I believe they wait until after the B&F in respect to players on the list. The other key factor is the trade and free agency period, and who is available, particularly this year when we plan to be active participants

[Ruck'n'Roll]

They all but openly said we're happy to let McKay go if we get pick 3. Why? You've got a very good tall defender. You're going to be guaranteed a better one in maybe five years with pick three? It's just locking the club into a cycle of mediocrity.

Stripped of any context, the we're happy to let McKay go if we get pick 3 idea appears incredibly stupid. I have no idea what the actual context is.

[BRS328]

Hollands is contracted at the Suns for another year however has been shopped around by his manager indicating that he is either unhappy, or feels with Suns depth of midfielders, his opportunities are limited. I suspect it is the latter, and given the Swans draft pick hand with Hawthorn’s second round pick, the Swans are ideally positioned if they decide to go with him.
Incidentally his younger brother plays for Carlton, and it has been reported they are interested in him.

[Markwebbos]

I know we “missed out” on McKay but it’s possible we may have withdrawn after his medical which showed knee problems and/or decided his ever increasing asking price was too high.

If Norf have got two free end of first rounders for 2024 that they’d be wise to use this year, I’d be asking for one of them for Stephens, even if we have to give something back.