Round 7 v GWS

[The Big Cat]

31k is a terrific crowd when one team has no supporters.

[barry]

Brett Kirk soiled his pants metaphorically speaking with his petulant display during the best on ground award presentation, so its high time the award was renamed.
After all, it's a goddamn mad-Sheedy idea to start with.

It shall be henceforth know as the Shane Mumford award. A legendary player for both clubs.
Kirky will be relieved to hand it over.

[chalbilto]

Why not name it the Sheedy/Longmire medal.

[wolftone57]

Longmire said Florent played on Green for the whole game. Only one goal was kicked on him according to the defensive coach. One was from a 50 metre penalty, another from a Hayward high tackle and another in a player hand-over.

If Gould had played on him, Toby would have kicked ten. The VFL is so far short of AFL it is not worth taking any notice of form. Winning the B&F just tells you he never missed games by playing seniors. Once AFL teams start to get injuries, VFL teams are full of top-ups as the salary cap is so low any decent players get paid infinitely more to play in SA or WA. Gould has been in the ressies for three years for a reason. Saying we don't know if he is an AFL player until we play him is rubbish. He trains every week against AFL forwards and the coaches obviously see nothing to give them confidence he can cut it. Look at our premier defenders - Rampe, straight into the team after being rookied, Tom McCartin into the team in his first year, Alex Johnson (when he played) straight into the team in his first year. Even Reg played games as a forward before he made it as a full back.

That is rubbish. Harry definitely played on Greene in the second half. As for Gould, he has not had the opportunity because the player he would replace would be Rampe.

Rampe wallowed in the secondary and minor competitions until he was 24. Then we rookied him. He took his opportunity. He had played as a top up for us. Then as A VFL player for Western Bulldogs. Then for Sydney Uni. So, he came straight in did he?

I doubt Greene would have kicked 10 on Gould.? At least he could have bodied him. Ollie just could not. Harry could not.? I trust what I see on the screen, not Horse's bull@@@@ presser. Harry was on him when he kicked goals in the last half.?

The whole coaching is @@@@e ATM.? We can no longer blame inexperience. We can't blame lack of height in the defence, Tommy & Francis.? We can't blame lack of numbers to run through the mids. We have plenty on mids that wallow on a HFF while our key mids are exhausted. Only 4 players go to the majority of stoppages. We did not put Paps through the mids this week. Heeney went there because he could not buy a kick. He was there to even up the numbers because Mills was playing loose in defence. But what that did was draw his opponent with him so they still had more at the ball.

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[wolftone57]

I think this is about right. A lot of the stats were quite even today. The big differences: Swans had 63 inside 50s to 48, and 12 marks inside 50 to 7. But the inside 50 efficiency was similar and the accuracy 62% to 77%. Giants made more of their scoring chances - most notably at the death! But then Greene is probably what footy media would call "the ultimate clutch player".

At the ground I thought the Swans went well for large parts of the game and it was pretty even, the Giants never ran away with a lead. It's very clear though how much the defence misses Rampe.

Very disappointing to give up a 4-goal lead late in the game but again, that's just game pressure on a young and inexperienced team. They just have to keep learning, acquiring experience and moving on I guess. I don't think that "wholesale changes in everything" is the answer.

There's always next week! Even if I do fear that they'll get absolutely monstered next week.

We were no more inexperienced thanthem

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[wolftone57]

Me? I think your reply should be directed at the one I was replying to, caj23, who said:"I’m not suggesting Sheldrick be dropped, just looks like another in a long line of first round stuff ups where we choose to overlook obvious talents and reach for lesser players
If you take out our academy selections our drafting has been poor".

I was having a go at our recruiters also, not so much Sheldrick, although we do need KPP's (I'll admit, that is in hindsight from this year's turn of events) and VR may have been a wiser choice. Time will tell....I like Gus but it appears he was out of depth today at least. 3 disposals. If he stays in, I hope he is put in the middle and we'll see how he goes.

He's got to play mids. He is not a forward. Sometimes players are what they are and can't play other positions

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[Kafka's Ghost]

That is rubbish. Harry definitely played on Greene in the second half. As for Gould, he has not had the opportunity because the player he would replace would be Rampe.

Rampe wallowed in the secondary and minor competitions until he was 24. Then we rookied him. He took his opportunity. He had played as a top up for us. Then as A VFL player for Western Bulldogs. Then for Sydney Uni. So, he came straight in did he?

I doubt Greene would have kicked 10 on Gould.? At least he could have bodied him. Ollie just could not. Harry could not.? I trust what I see on the screen, not Horse's bull@@@@ presser. Harry was on him when he kicked goals in the last half.?

The whole coaching is @@@@e ATM.? We can no longer blame inexperience. We can't blame lack of height in the defence, Tommy & Francis.? We can't blame lack of numbers to run through the mids. We have plenty on mids that wallow on a HFF while our key mids are exhausted. Only 4 players go to the majority of stoppages. We did not put Paps through the mids this week. Heeney went there because he could not buy a kick. He was there to even up the numbers because Mills was playing loose in defence. But what that did was draw his opponent with him so they still had more at the ball.

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We won the clearances, and all the other stats except the scoreboard.
Florent was playing on Greene at that last stoppage.
Greene is a football genius, and the inexperienced Gould wouldn’t have been close enough to body him.


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[wolftone57]

We won the clearances, and all the other stats except the scoreboard.
Florent was playing on Greene at that last stoppage.
Greene is a football genius, and the inexperienced Gould wouldn’t have been close enough to body him.


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Neither Florent or Cunningham did any good

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[Kafka's Ghost]

Neither Florent or Cunningham did any good

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Rampe and Fox are better match ups, but this is where our injury problems are also biting, It’s not just the missing talls, the loss of these players has ramifications across the ground.


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[i'm-uninformed2]

I'm sorry, but I'm just not sure where the idea Harry was on Greene for the bulk of the second half comes from. He wasn't. It was Ollie - and I say that as someone who thinks Ollie's been excellent this year, and Harry's been right down; so I'd gladly attribute it to him if true.

[The Big Cat]

That is rubbish. Harry definitely played on Greene in the second half. As for Gould, he has not had the opportunity because the player he would replace would be Rampe.

Rampe wallowed in the secondary and minor competitions until he was 24. Then we rookied him. He took his opportunity. He had played as a top up for us. Then as A VFL player for Western Bulldogs. Then for Sydney Uni. So, he came straight in did he?

I doubt Greene would have kicked 10 on Gould.? At least he could have bodied him. Ollie just could not. Harry could not.? I trust what I see on the screen, not Horse's bull@@@@ presser. Harry was on him when he kicked goals in the last half.?

The whole coaching is @@@@e ATM.? We can no longer blame inexperience. We can't blame lack of height in the defence, Tommy & Francis.? We can't blame lack of numbers to run through the mids. We have plenty on mids that wallow on a HFF while our key mids are exhausted. Only 4 players go to the majority of stoppages. We did not put Paps through the mids this week. Heeney went there because he could not buy a kick. He was there to even up the numbers because Mills was playing loose in defence. But what that did was draw his opponent with him so they still had more at the ball.

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From now on we'll get you to do the pressers after the game since you know so much more about who played on who. After all, the camera stays on each match-up for the whole match.

As for Gould, he had two opportunities when Rampe was out and didn't do anything in either to show that he's any more than an average VFL player. In fact he was dropped after both games even though our defence was shredded with injuries. As for bodying up Toby, Gould wouldn't be able to body any AFL player he's as slow as treacle. Even Tomahawk put yards on him on the lead.

[KTigers]

We were no more inexperienced thanthem

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According to the numbers shown on that post game show with Ben Dixon, David King, Leigh Montagna our team on Saturday
was about middle of the table when it comes to average games played. GWS were the second least experienced in the comp.

[waswan]

Hickey for Mclean, talk about someone given a heap of opportunities and not delivering

Interesting to see the coaches mentality this week.

Pies dont have a ruck and if Hickey is ready we have 2.
We should exploit that, typically our selection committee would play one cos they have none.

[barry]

According to the numbers shown on that post game show with Ben Dixon, David King, Leigh Montagna our team on Saturday
was about middle of the table when it comes to average games played. GWS were the second least experienced in the comp.

Some on here have said the 2022 grand final was a fluke. Maybe it was, maybe it wasnt. Doesnt matter, just the invaluable experience it will give players is worth it, so an absolute net good thing.
But lets run with the 'fluke' line for a bit. If we discount 2022 from the data, swans because it was a 'fluke', GWS because they sacked a coach mid-season, and lost of few players..
Then the Giants and the Swans are actually tracking very similar. Both in a rebuild phase with exciting youngsters, sprinking of established stars, and very inexperienced lists. Last time they met (excluding 2022 data) was a very close final in tassie.

What does all this mean? it means that GWS is our litmus test whenever we meet them. They are on the same trajectory as us, and as far as last weekend goes, the teams are neck and neck.

[Kafka's Ghost]

According to the numbers shown on that post game show with Ben Dixon, David King, Leigh Montagna our team on Saturday
was about middle of the table when it comes to average games played. GWS were the second least experienced in the comp.

Just adding one player to the squad dragged that number up.
Despite that, we still won every metric except the score board.
Adelaide had the umpires playing for them too, and suffered a similar fate due to poor conversion, like us.


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