2023 Brownlow thread

[Bloods05]

Precisely. People complaining about the Brownlow has joined death and taxes as being one of life's certainties. While there's no doubt that votes are becoming more concentrated amongst fewer players, it's been a midfielders' award for almost ever. Always ever if you include ruckmen as midfielders.

And both the AFLCA and the Brownlow not only predominantly recognised midfielders. They recognised the same ones. Butters, Bontempelli, Daicos, Neale, Gulden, Petracca - top six in the Brownlow, top six in the AFLCA.

There gave been exceptions though, two of them Swans. Ron Clegg and Fred Goldsmith.

[barry]

I love the brownlow. It's not always the media darlings that win it. Remember it's the best and FAIREST. If the bont mouths off to an ump, he ain't getting 3 votes no matter how he played. If he ducks into trackles or tries to milk free kicks, he also ain't getting 3 votes.
Lachie Neale is obviously a very fair player.
Errol is also a fair player or seems.

[Bloods05]

I love the brownlow. It's not always the media darlings that win it. Remember it's the best and FAIREST. If the bont mouths off to an ump, he ain't getting 3 votes no matter how he played. If he ducks into trackles or tries to milk free kicks, he also ain't getting 3 votes.
Lachie Neale is obviously a very fair player.
Errol is also a fair player or seems.

I think the attribute of fairness looms large in the estimation of umpires, and has done for many years. It's why Skilts won three, and Barassi and Whitten and Mattews won none, despite their obvious on-field achievements.

I think the exceptions like Plugger and Dipper can be explained as having had incredible seasons in their Brownlow years, so much so that they won despite their rough style of play. And maybe they behaved themselves better in those years.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Was it Whitten or Jack Dyer that called the Brownloaw the milksops award?

[Kafka's Ghost]

Was it Whitten or Jack Dyer that called the Brownloaw the milksops award?

Who cares, they were wrong. Bobby Skilton, Adam Goodes, Ian Stewart, Tony Lockett, Jim Stynes and every other winner of the Brownlow weren’t “milksops”. Whether you agree with the results or not, it’s not a reflection on weakness by any player.
Having said that, some of the votes on Monday night were truly bizarre.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Nothing like an exceptionally forthright, definitive and humourless response to put an end to an innocent conversation starter.

[liz]

My fancy was tickled by the following factoid, provided by the "By the numbers" article on the Swans' website.

Now three seasons into his career, having picked up three votes in 2022, he has a total of 32 votes – more than the combined 26 votes of the other 87 players taken in his draft year. Next best is the Bulldogs’ #1 pick Jamara Ugle-Hagen (7), Collingwood’s Jack Ginnivan (4) and Geelong’s Ollie Henry (3) and Max Holmes (3).

By the numbers: Gulden enters the record books in Brownlow count

[Hotpotato]

That’s remarkable. Will Errol stay a Swan. Hope so . Please .

[barry]

Despite all the angst it is interesting to note that the same 6 players who gained the top votes for the Brownlow Medal are the same 6 who were top of the Coaches Association Medal votes, just in different order. Butters was the big difference and the only one who should be a bit miffed, he and Neale swapped positions.

Butters lost a lot of votes to rozee. That's another anomaly of the brownlow.... you don't want two contenders from the same team.
I think most other awards are far too stats based.

[AppleCore]

I think most other awards are far too stats based.

And yet, I thought I remembered reading that the umpires now had access to the game stats before giving their votes.

[Meg]

2023 Brownlow thread

I thought this was a perceptive BTL comment by poster identified as WombatsRamble re Neale’s win.

“ … just looking at the stats you can't see what he does, how he wins clean ball in a way that few other players can, and finds outside runners in good positions. How he rides tackles to still find players. How he lays tackles himself on bigger players, good tackles that lead to more stoppages that he can win another clearance ..”.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/sep/25/lachie-neale-kybybolite-kid-defies-the-odds-to-win-second-brownlow#comments

[MattW]

I thought this was a perceptive BTL comment by poster identified as WombatsRamble re Neale’s win.

“ … just looking at the stats you can't see what he does, how he wins clean ball in a way that few other players can, and finds outside runners in good positions. How he rides tackles to still find players. How he lays tackles himself on bigger players, good tackles that lead to more stoppages that he can win another clearance ..”.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...wnlow#comments

Indeed.

[liz]

Good player for Gus Sheldrick to model himself on!

Neale is a great illustration of how hard the best players work to develop their games. He came into the Freo side as an instant ball magnet but was often a case of quantity rather than quality. I remember a game we played against Freo many years back in which four midfielders each got over 40 possessions. I can’t remember exactly which two Swans it was (Hanners and one of Parker or JPK, I think) and the two Freo players were Mundy and Neale. Mundy was very good but I remember watching Neale and thinking it might be the worst 40 possession game ever. Lots of cheap handballs, useless short kicks backwards and hospital passes to team mates. (Swans won the game very comfortably.)

But as he’s grown more experienced, everything he does has become purposeful. He can still find the ball at will but he uses it so intelligently. He doesn’t have an Errol- boot on him but he still finds targets in dangerous spots, and rarely pass his stats with cheapies.

[stevoswan]

Nothing like an exceptionally forthright, definitive and humourless response to put an end to an innocent conversation starter.

Conversations start better with intelligent statements, not dumb tough talk....and to make it clear, I'm not calling you dumb R&R.

Whitten and/or Dyer on the other hand.....which was likely Kafka's Ghost's point.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Conversations start better with intelligent statements, not dumb tough talk....and to make it clear, I'm not calling you dumb R&R.

Whitten and/or Dyer on the other hand.....which was likely Kafka's Ghost's point.

The milksop medal comment was directed at Bobby Skilton by Ted Whitten Senior. Bobby was one of Ted's best mates and legend has it that he was responsible for the "Chimp" nickname. Whitten had an exceedingly dry Australian sense of humour, and never finished higher that 3rd in the medal, where as Bobby had just won his 3rd. Teddy was in fact highlighting Skiltons achievements in an "Little John" kind of way. "Putting @@@@" on a friend is not an uncommon form of humour in Australia. It was a joke, a "stitch up."

Perhaps not knowing the background/context made it difficult for you two to get the humour. I've never tried to explain a joke before, and it seems odd to be explaining such a widely known anecdote, but I've done so now. It was not meant as a slur on Lockett, Kelly, Stynes or Goodes - the assumption that it was, and the speed of the reaction did surprise me.