Delistings/Retirements/Trading

[sharpie]

Here are my thoughts on a number of players:

ROK - he better stay. Last night was proof of that

Seymour - definitely adds something to the team when fit, but that is his problem. Will either stay or retire.

Fosdike - has plenty of improvement left in him, he's not going anywhere, and why would we trade him for something like a 2nd round draft pick, when that is more of a lottery than the chance of him improving

Frosty - Couldn't get a game against Port when we had more injuries than a hospital ward. 1 word - GAWN. No value in trade, delisting or retirement the options.

Doyle - 1 more chance next year to play play without injuries, otherwise he will become the next Ryan Fitzgerald.

Stevens - Ablett got the nod against him last night. I think that sums up his standing in this team. Will be our no. 1 trade bait. No place in the current team for him

James - after giving him a run in the seniors this year, there is no chance he is leaving now. Will be elevated to the senior list.

Ablett - see comment re Stevens. May be 2nd trade bait.

Saddo - as with Fossy, he has the potential, plus he is tall. This is something we don't have a lot of. He is still a key player, just not a key position player. With a decent fullback or CHB, Saddo will be let loose to play a more creative role, and then he will deliver

Nicks - against Port showed why he is still valuable. Against Brisbane showed that he is too slow. No value in a trade. He is staying, but may struggle if more young guys excel next year. May become next year's Frosty of Warfe.

Buchanan - tough break when Schneider stayed fit and he didn't. Maybe some trade value. No real place on the list, but may stay if minimal changes.

Warfe - see comment re Frosty

Sunny - will get another chance to show us what he has

Schneider - GAWN. Just kidding . Had to stir someone!

Meiklejohn - gut feeling says he will move back to the rookie list. With Ball, Doyle, Goodes and LRT, no need for him to take a spot on the senior list.

Conclusion: With Cressa retired, and Frosty and Warfe almost certainly gone, I think only Stevens needs to go to satisfy the minimum requirements. However, would be suprised to see Buchanan and possibly Ablett on the list next year. The rest to stay.

What can we expect: a suprise probably. Almost certainly, we will get 1 big name player. Who, how, why? I can not say. But I think we all agree we need it. Apart from this, the rest of our top players must be home-grown.

Go the swans.

[Reggi]

I think a lot of people on this board are very harsh on Saddington - most tall defenders play their best footy past the age of 25 when they are bulked up and have the experience.

I mean Dunkley did not start playing at fullback until he was 27 (and very strong)

Saddo will be a very good CHB - he just needs time to bulk up more

[liz]

Originally posted by Reggi

From this year you'd think only Meiklejohn and Crawford would stay on the Rookie list.

Crawford you reckon. I've got the impression - admittedly more from reading reports than by watching the ressies play much - that Crawford hasn't had the impact of either Bevan or McGlone.

McGlone won't stay on the rookie list, I suspect. If the club doesn't chose to promote him I think he'll put himself in the draft. Bevan's maybe a chance to stay on the rookie list another year, and I'd be amazed if they don't retain MJ.

Talk of trading Saddo for the sake of it is ridiculous, IMO. Sure, he hasn't had his best season but it's also the first where he's been hampered by ongoing injuries - remember he missed many weeks with a bad quad strain before the problems with his medial ligament.

Saddo is almost the proto-type player for the style of game Roos is developing - tallish, athletic and a decent enough kick. Played off a half back flank, or as CHB on the lighter CHFs, he could be a very damaging player for us. He's also one of our stronger marks and can be used as a target for long kick-ins.

The Fossie question we've done to death in recent weeks. I like him and I'd be flabbergasted if we traded him. We wouldn't get much more than a mid-20s pick and he has far more value to the team than an untested kid who would fall to that point in the draft. We might get a goody but it would be a punt. There are plenty of youngsters coming through the club and we'll pick up another 4 or 5 in the draft this year regardless. Fosdike still has his best footy ahead of him and has a role to play.

Stevens I'm ambivalent about. His relative lack of pace coupled with his still light frame means I can't see him ever being much more than a fringe player for the Swans.

[ugg]

Saddo certainly has the height and stature to play as a KPP. The club just needs to commit to that decision and tell him to bulk up and train him to play as a CHB.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Reggi
I hope the club has learnt the error of its was regards trading and picking up other clubs duds.

Nathan Brown Simon Garlick and Robert Murphy are at the airport - I hope we don't go for that clown Brown (or Murphy).

I hope the club puts a heap of effort into keeping O'Keefe one on one he is solid - and like players as Pike and Barnard he's born for finals.

Disappointed if we lost Stevens.

With Cresswell retired (and expecting Heath James to be on the list), my expectation is for Warfe & McPherson to be delisted.

I think we should let go of Nicks but they won't.

Amon Buchanon would be in trouble - could try and put him on the Rookie list.

From this year you'd think only Meiklejohn and Crawford would stay on the Rookie list.

I just pray to god we don't do anything really dumb like previous years - a la the suggested Lucas / Saddington deal. No live in hope "top up" players. Just develop from within.

'Other clubs duds' seem to have played pretty well this year. I can think of Hall, Williams, Maxfield, C Bolton, Davis and Schauble all being more than handy. Are these your 'live in hope top up players'?

I bet you were the bloke saying 'no let's not trade to get Barry Hall, let's develop from within'. Growing our own players is something we MUST do, but that is no reason why we cannot trade under performing players for potential stars.

Oh while we are talking about it, Brown is a star (not necessarily suited to the Swans though) and Lucus is one of the best versatile key position players going around.

[sharpie]

In terms of player losses, only Stafford for Hall has recently occurred. Both C.Bolton and Davis came relatively cheaply. I think this is what Reggi is getting at. It is no good letting go of guys already in our best 22 unless absolutely crucial, i.e. the Barry Hall trade. Saddo is a must, we just need another, stronger tall defender for him to work with.

[hardluck_harry]

Originally posted by Reggi
I think a lot of people on this board are very harsh on Saddington - most tall defenders play their best footy past the age of 25 when they are bulked up and have the experience.

I mean Dunkley did not start playing at fullback until he was 27 (and very strong)

Saddo will be a very good CHB - he just needs time to bulk up more

Agreed on Saddo, plus his season was wrecked with injury. Doyle is another that will improve given time to bulk up his body and with experience.

[Reggi]

Exactly.

I thought Hall was a no brainer, at the moment givenb that we have a young and developing list - trading for other clubs players would cause us nothing but trouble.

For every Barry Hall we have had 5 Shannon Corcoran's Nick Daffy's Jim Edmond's Paul Starbuck's and Warren McKenzie's.

Suddenly focussing on having it now always gets us in trouble

[CureTheSane]

I hope the club has learnt the error of its was regards trading and picking up other clubs duds.

I read this a lot, and I believe it is used as a rash generalisation.

Sure, the club stuffed up a few years ago, but EVERY club generally trades for tried and tested talent.

Remember, there is a TRADING period and a DRAFTING period.

Duds?

Lockett
Schwass
Willo
Schauble
maxfield
Davis
Bolton
etc

Sure we've picked up some real duds, but they were sometimes as a part of some other trade deal, or next to nothing and worth the risk.

We NEED a backman as a trade.
We also need to draft one at least to develop.
We also need to DRAFT a midfielder or 2 to be developed there with Maxfield and Willo moving on in the next few years.

As for Saddo and Fosdike and a few others that are in debate, well, who really knows?

I mean there may be players wanting to move for various reasons (family etc)
and there may also be player who haven't been able to fit into the new team structure as well as others in the eyes of the coaching staff, and they may be have to let go for players who they feel will fit in better.

We most likely will lose players that upset some people....

[Scottee]

Agree that trading is not a good option this year unless it is with a real fringe player. This year though there really arent any standouts for trade. IMHO not even Stevens, Ablett or anyone else.

Those that we drop off the list will probably retire from AFL football.

Ablett and Stevens should definitely be kept for another year simply because it will become clear with maturity if these guys can make it. Both could be excellent players, but if they don't make it next year then we should trade.

I was very impressed with Stevens' effort in defence against Port and judging by Roosy's words when he left him out of the team, he will be staying.

Ablett's marking and kicking ability impressed me against Brisbane and it seems he is potentially of the same ability as O'Keefe. Must be given a chance and is also a potential in and under replacement for Cresswell.

[Bear]

Originally posted by ugg
Saddo certainly has the height and stature to play as a KPP. The club just needs to commit to that decision and tell him to bulk up and train him to play as a CHB.

Been there, done that... and several times now.

Should be used on the wing and could be quite damaging, or traded for a real KPP. Has failed year after year on the big forwards.

[DST]

Originally posted by Bear
Been there, done that... and several times now.

Should be used on the wing and could be quite damaging, or traded for a real KPP. Has failed year after year on the big forwards.

Just to clear things up Saddington can not be traded under the new rules, so unless he is going to retire it is end of story.

Blokes like Saddo don't grow on trees. I am the first one to admit that he has trouble on the bigger forwards but we do not have an automatic replacement for him at this stage nor will we be in a position to trade for a ready made replacment such as Jacob's.

He is not going anywhere.

With Creswell retiring, Frosty & Warfe almost certain to go as well we are in a position to only look at probably two more spots. IMHO it will come from the following group:

Amon (probablt a cert to go, Schiender has taken his spot)
Ablett (may have saved his spot last night and with Cressa gone)
Stevens (just has not stepped up to the plate)
Seymour (only if he wants to retire)

I just don't see the wholesale changes being made this year as some people think. With last years purge it is a time to consolidate and draft young and look for a mature KP backman.

DST


DST

[ugg]

Originally posted by Bear
Been there, done that... and several times now.

Should be used on the wing and could be quite damaging, or traded for a real KPP. Has failed year after year on the big forwards.

Its the way he's approaching his task as a key defender that is failing him and the team. Someone really has to tell him its better to punch the ball then to go for the speccy. Craig Bolton, who is smaller physically, has shown he can match it with players such as Brown and Richardson by playing smart so I don't see why Saddington can't

[Reggi]

Originally posted by CureTheSane

Sure, the club stuffed up a few years ago, but EVERY club generally trades for tried and tested talent.

Remember, there is a TRADING period and a DRAFTING period.

Duds?

Lockett
Schwass
Willo
Schauble
maxfield
Davis
Bolton
etc

Sure we've picked up some real duds, but they were sometimes as a part of some other trade deal, or next to nothing and worth the risk.

We NEED a backman as a trade.
We also need to draft one at least to develop.
We also need to DRAFT a midfielder or 2 to be developed there with Maxfield and Willo moving on in the next few years.

As for Saddo and Fosdike and a few others that are in debate, well, who really knows?

I must have missed it - how many Sydney Premierships have those players played in.

Are you telling us that clubs that consistenly win Premierships like Brisbane and S&Don trade from other clubs?

Do they?

Cause I ain't seen em do it.

[omnipotent]

It always sounds irrational to be putting players up for trade after a loss in finals but you have to focus on who will take you the next step, and you partly base this around finals performances. People I would be prepared to trade, and where they are not wanted delisted are


Saddington
Nicks
Davis
Fosdike
Warfe
McPherson
Stevens
Kennelly mainly because we would get something good for him
Jude Bolton
Doyle
Ball
Maybe one or two others. Saddington might get the most out of some of those near the top because there is a perception from some that he can play but I think he is our most overrated and disappointing player apart from Davis. Fosdike was shocking last night as well and must go down as one of the worst #3 picks ever.