JUDE BOLTON...superstar?

[Nico]

Re: JUDE BOLTON...superstar?

Originally posted by swansrule100
given the debate on what jude bolton is worth i was wondering where we all think he rates in the afl??

is he in the top 10 players?? top 50?? top 100 or outside that??

i rate him easily in the top 50 in the league...perhaps top 25!

Stevie Wonder in disguise.

[anne]

They get paid a lot of money as they are in the entertainment industry which is an industry that can be very highly paid.

[liz]

Originally posted by Damien
You don't often hear of a footballer who remains unemployed after football retirement.

Actually, you rarely hear anything about 90% odd of players once they leave the AFL environment, many of them having never played a game. It is only the elite few who are able to use their football connections to prosper after football. Most become "normal" members of the work force, except that they have spent anything from two to fifteen years in a full-time job that has very few skills transferable to another job.

The fact that just a couple of decades ago they did if for the love of it is irrelevant in the current environment. They had sufficient time to hold down another job and gain those skills that would set them up for the rest of their lives. They are lucky if they get one day off from work a week nowadays.

[Damien]

Originally posted by lizz
Actually, you rarely hear anything about 90% odd of players once they leave the AFL environment, many of them having never played a game. It is only the elite few who are able to use their football connections to prosper after football. Most become "normal" members of the work force, except that they have spent anything from two to fifteen years in a full-time job that has very few skills transferable to another job.

Actually, most footballers who are close to AFL level (i.e never play a game or just a few) , generally do very well from leagues like the SANFL, VFL, WAFL and leagues in Tasmania.

Most leagues bend over backwards to set up recruits in jobs etc, typically the networks players are able to build are remarkable.

You don't need to become a millionaire to prosper from Football.

[Charlie]

Midfielder type players that, off the top of my head, I would rate better than Jude at present:

Adelaide: Riccuito, McLeod, Edwards
Brisbane: Voss, Akermanis, Black, Power, Lappin, C.Johnson, B.Scott
Carlton: Stevens, Camporeale
Collingwood: Buckley, Burns
Essendon: Hird, J.Johnson, M.Johnson, McPhee, Ramanauskas
Fremantle: Hasleby, Bell, Pavlich
Geelong: Ling, Kelly
Hawthorn: Crawford
Melbourne: Yze
Kangaroos: Grant, Simpson, Rawlings, Harvey
Port Adelaide: Carr, K.Cornes, P.Burgoyne
Richmond: Coughlan, Johnson, Brown
St Kilda: Harvey, Hayes, Dal Santo
Sydney: Kirk, Williams
West Coast: Cousins, Fletcher, Judd
Bulldogs: Johnson, Smith, West

That's 47. About the same as Nick when you take into account that I consider some players to be 'midfield type' that evidently he doesn't. He also forgot to include Swans midfielders.

Now, add defenders and midfielders, and that puts him just outside the top 100, like most have said. Considering that Brisbane, Port and St Kilda probably have 30-35 of the top 100 alone... that means that Jude would be inside the top ten at most clubs. That's pretty good, in my book. He can be better, but he's by no means just an 'average' midfielder; he's well inside the upper quartile.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by lizz
Most become "normal" members of the work force, except that they have spent anything from two to fifteen years in a full-time job that has very few skills transferable to another job.

If they're smart they'll have done some study or learnt a trade, which they have time to do, but being an ex-AFL footballer opens a lot of doors in Melbourne - you'd be amazed how much. I know a few ex-footballers.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Charlie
That's 47. About the same as Nick when you take into account that I consider some players to be 'midfield type' that evidently he doesn't. He also forgot to include Swans midfielders.

I was doing it fairly quickly.

Now, add defenders and midfielders, and that puts him just outside the top 100, like most have said. Considering that Brisbane, Port and St Kilda probably have 30-35 of the top 100 alone... that means that Jude would be inside the top ten at most clubs. That's pretty good, in my book. He can be better, but he's by no means just an 'average' midfielder; he's well inside the upper quartile.

But there are about 80-100 starting midfielders in the comp - if there are 40 above Bolton, that makes him about middle of the road, or slightly above.

[Bron]

Get over it.

Sportspeople, in high demand sports, are paid a lot of money.

My beloved husband has spent years being critical of the salaries paid to those in my industry, IT. Whilst most people don't make $300k, there are quite a few who do. Most of those are salespeople. Fundamentally, who does more? I know that I enjoy a game of footy (as the audience) far more than I do an enterprise systems presentation!

The career is short.

Jude epitomises the right attitudes. He is a fabulous clubman. Watch him on and off the field, encouraging and supporting his teammates. He is always courteous, enthusiastic and encouraging to supporters. This ultimately brings in money to the Club.

The Club makes money from its players. Without them, none of us would have anything to show up for. The players, through major effort, or natural gifts, are able to do what they do well enough to play in the AFL. As a result, they take the spoils.

If the market is paying $300k, then that's what the deal is. If we have other clubs looking at Jude and he is being given competitive offers, then we must pay what is the going rate if we wish to retain him. He has been a superb representative of the Club (as I must say, have been most of our players).

Fans, generally, have an affinity with different players. Different people have a soft spot for different players. That's good. It's part of the broad marketing effort. We need all types - both from a player and a PR perspective.

Jude is worth the $$ we pay him. Absolutely.

[NMWBloods]

Ho hum...

The expression "get over it" really pisses me off when you are simply trying to discuss something and express a view. It's usually the last resort of someone with no legitimate arguments but emotion.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I was doing it fairly quickly.

Thought so. Mine's not comprehensive either, so what I did was list the players I thought were particularly subjective as to how they compare to Bolton, then included half of them.

But there are about 80-100 starting midfielders in the comp - if there are 40 above Bolton, that makes him about middle of the road, or slightly above.

Sorry, that should have read 'footballers', not 'midfielders'. My mistake. Being in the top 25% of listed players is to me a sign that a player is an established, successful footballer. Whether it makes them 'elite' or a 'superstar' depends upon how you define those terms. I'd say they apply to absolutely no more than 10% of players - more like 6-7%. Meaning that for the Swans, I'd consider Hall, Goodes and Kirk to be 'elite' players. Leo, Micky, Willo, Schaubes and Jude make up the next tier.

[sharp9]

I agree with that analysis, Charlie.

Elite: Hall, Kirk, Goodes (when fully fit)

1st class: J. Bolton, Barry, Schauble, Schneider (when fully fit), Davis (when fully fit), Williams (was elite for a couple of years).

A 1st class player would be in the 22 of every club in the country.

An elite player would be a key player for every club in the country.

Not a very long list, really. Makes you think about the trading situation. I mean, in my opinion, we do not have any other players who would walk into the 22 of the top few clubs. So we can hardly expect to trade any of our players and make a profit.

Kennelly, O'Keefe, Mathews, Ball and C. Bolton would be next.

Back to Jude. Here's my big call. He's gonna win a Brownlow. Why? because I have looked into my crystal ball and seen him develop the ability to not only get to the ball first, but to get it to a team mate with more regularity. Add to this his goal-scoring potential and if he puts all three together for the year he will be a Brownlow winner and All-Australian.....2006

[sharp9]

Oooops! I missed my Magic on the 1st class list. (has elite talent, of course!)

[liz]

Originally posted by sharp9

Not a very long list, really. Makes you think about the trading situation. I mean, in my opinion, we do not have any other players who would walk into the 22 of the top few clubs.

I suspect that if you did a similar analysis on the lists of almost every other club in the land you wouldn't come up with more than a dozen or so names that would "walk into" any other team - so the Swans list is pretty similar to the rest.

Brisbane is obviously an exception, maybe St Kilda (especially based on their form over the first 10 weeks of this year). Port and Melbourne are pretty evenly balanced teams that are playing well together - a few stars but mostly relying on even contributions from all, not unlike the Swans. Essendon do have quite a number of quality older players, while the Cats and Freo have a lot of quality up and comers.

Look at the lists of Richmond, Hawthorn, Carlton, Kangaroos, Adelaide, Collingwood, West Coast, Bulldogs and you'd probably struggle to find more than half a dozen names on each list that would "walk straight into" the Swans team.

So I doubt the Swans list is in particularly better or worse shape than most others in the competition.

To deliver value from a trade, however, you don't need players that would walk into every team - you need a player who would either walk into the particular team you are trading with (because of positional needs) or even just add a bit of depth to that team in an area where the Swans may have a surplus of depth.

[Bron]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Ho hum...

The expression "get over it" really pisses me off when you are simply trying to discuss something and express a view. It's usually the last resort of someone with no legitimate arguments but emotion.

My "get over it" was aimed at people doing the "football players aren't worth $300k" argument. The fact is that clubs are paying that, so stop getting focused on the dollars and pay attention to the relativity.

Why should a tennis player make $1m for a tournament, when a firefighter makes (I guess) $50k yet they save lives. Companies pay top CEOs millions, yet the bloke who runs the country gets a lousy few hundred thou - pay peanuts, get monkeys. The relativities of the world don't work out as they should.

Jude is a good player. I believe he has potential to be a great player (that's emotion, but based on my belief on his attitude and effort - maybe I'm wrong to go with effort getting results!). He should be in the top end of our list. That means $300k is not unrealistic for someone in that position. My "get over it" was aimed at those who think a footballer isn't worth that much.

[NMWBloods]

Fair enough. Confusion reigns in the unclear environment of the internet forum as usual.

BTW though - I still don't think footballers should be paid that much - I don't think the industry can afford to do so on a long-term basis.