Jude a done deal?

[NMWBloods]

I don't judge purely on quantity of stats - I judge on quality and influence on the game. Bolton doesn't rate so highly on those measures.

What other options does Roos have? I think Bolton makes a useful third-best midfielder in a side, but not the best.

[Damien]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
My apologies if I trust Paul Roos ahead of my learned critics on thismessageboard, when determining talent

What does that have to do with it?

You think he would choose Bolton over Judd?

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I don't judge purely on quantity of stats - I judge on quality and influence on the game. Bolton doesn't rate so highly on those measures.

What other options does Roos have? I think Bolton makes a useful third-best midfielder in a side, but not the best.

He is a very hard-working and modest midfielder who regularly draws the best tagger the opposition has, and still gets 20+ possessions per game. The stats prove that he is in the top 20, or very close to it. That means he is worth $300k a year.

Its a distraction to state that he is "not as good as some" because its obvious and irrelevant. But he is still worth $300k and still our best midfielder. And we have made the finals two years in a row with him in that role.

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by Damien
What does that have to do with it?

You think he would choose Bolton over Judd?

How is that comparison relevant? Will he be given that choice?

[Damien]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
How is that comparison relevant? Will he be given that choice?

You said he was top 20 midfielder. I said he wasn't.

You took it from there mate!

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by Damien
You said he was top 20 midfielder. I said he wasn't.

You took it from there mate!

Actually Nico said he wasn't worth $300k and I said that I considered him top 20 and so he was.

Then others start rattling off midfielders that have barely played this year or had far worse years than Jude but are still better?? Riiight. You're only as good as your last few games. And the only way to be better is to do better next time around.

Thats why Jude is worth the money, and a lot of other teams would pay him $300k to have him.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
So what do you people base performance on?? Emotion, media hype, reputation? If Jude is currently 26th on possessions (equal with Judd) and 11th in tackles then why wouldn't he be in the top 20??

My apologies if I trust Paul Roos ahead of my learned critics on thismessageboard, when determining talent

His possessions were only average last night. A couple of his passes were OK, but his handpassing out of traffic just went all over the place, and rarely to player free, which tells me he probably can't pick the "voices".

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
He is a very hard-working and modest midfielder who regularly draws the best tagger the opposition has, and still gets 20+ possessions per game. The stats prove that he is in the top 20, or very close to it. That means he is worth $300k a year.

Its a distraction to state that he is "not as good as some" because its obvious and irrelevant. But he is still worth $300k and still our best midfielder. And we have made the finals two years in a row with him in that role.

He is 'hard working' and 'modest' but he draws an elite pay packet.

We may have made finals two years in a row with him in that role, but perhaps we could have done better with a better midfielder.

The stats don't 'prove' anything. In a permanent midfield role I would expect him to get 20+ possessions. However, as I've noted before these are generally not dynamic or damaging possessions. He also does not play much of a defensive role. He's also not closely tagged that frequently.

[Nico]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
He is 'hard working' and 'modest' but he draws an elite pay packet.

We may have made finals two years in a row with him in that role, but perhaps we could have done better with a better midfielder.

The stats don't 'prove' anything. In a permanent midfield role I would expect him to get 20+ possessions. However, as I've noted before these are generally not dynamic or damaging possessions. He also does not play much of a defensive role. He's also not closely tagged that frequently.

He is not tagged because other clubs know he gets a lot of stats across HB and at stoppges, and doesn't hurt teams.

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
He is 'hard working' and 'modest' but he draws an elite pay packet.

We may have made finals two years in a row with him in that role, but perhaps we could have done better with a better midfielder.

The stats don't 'prove' anything. In a permanent midfield role I would expect him to get 20+ possessions. However, as I've noted before these are generally not dynamic or damaging possessions. He also does not play much of a defensive role. He's also not closely tagged that frequently.

Damn you guys are tough. He played pretty bloody well last night, and cropped up to help out in defence plenty of times.

You keep talking as though he is on the $450k+ that the truly elite players are on, and keep expecting him to perform as such. Any team could benefit from "a better midfielder" but he is still our best, and well worth the $300k. I never said I'd have him over Judd, Ball, Hird or Voss, but plenty of other teams would gladly pick him up for just $300k.

[Nico]

Schneiderman, it is not as if we who question his monetary value hate the guy.

It is just frustrating that a bloke who gets it 20+ times a game doesn't have the polish to top his game off with better quality disposals. No one appears to question his work ethic.

[chammond]

Hey Schneiderman, don't despair. Most Swans fans think that Bolton is worth the money . . . it's just a small vocal minority on this board who like to argue the toss.

Bolton's stats speak for themselves . . . the rest is just conjecture.

Most posters avoid the debate now, because everything on this topic has already been said . . . . over . . . and over . . . . and over . . . . and over . . . .

[midaro]

IMO you'll find Jude's possession stats are inflated because our midfield talent is so shallow. I don't have the numbers, but my guess would be that Jude plays far more minutes on-the-ball than the best midfielders in other teams - he rarely (never) plays forward or back, either.

Don't be to hung up on possessions anyway - does anyone have Jude's clanger numbers? - so many times he just throws the ball onto his foot and it goes straight to the opposition.

[swansrule100]

i think judes 300k is well deserved..

at worst he is an above average midfielder and 300k is the going rate

id say a judd or equivalent is about 550 so jude is easily 300 if not more!

hes playing awesome footy, gets in under the packs does the hard stuff and must inspire the team

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Damn you guys are tough. He played pretty bloody well last night, and cropped up to help out in defence plenty of times.

Like I've said, he played okay. He played to the ability of a number 3 midfielder in a side, which is what I think he is.

You keep talking as though he is on the $450k+ that the truly elite players are on, and keep expecting him to perform as such. Any team could benefit from "a better midfielder" but he is still our best, and well worth the $300k. I never said I'd have him over Judd, Ball, Hird or Voss, but plenty of other teams would gladly pick him up for just $300k.

'Just'? As a recent article said $300K is a pretty decent amount for an AFL footballer. I don't think he is our best midfielder either - now or in terms of potential.