Jude a done deal?

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
'Just'? As a recent article said $300K is a pretty decent amount for an AFL footballer. I don't think he is our best midfielder either - now or in terms of potential.

Who is? Kirk? Because a lot of people bag him out too given the chance (although I must admit I have always had a really soft spot for Captain, and he IS a NSW boy).

The top midfielders get paid twice what Jude's on: Hird, Buckley, Cousins, Crawford, Judd, Carr, Stevens, McLeod.

$300k doesn't buy you a whole lot of talent these days. If the salary cap is $6mil and you have 40 players to support off that, the average pay is $150k. Then you have to consider all of your rookies and first/second year players are on less the $50k, and your veterans dont count in the cap. At that rate, most run-of-the-mill players are on $150k+ and your better players push up to $300k easily. Then you have your top group on $400 to $500k, unless you have one superstar on $500k+.

Remember that the value of the player is not determined by your opinion of their talent, but by your opposition clubs opinion of it. If you want to keep a player, you have to pay as much or more than other clubs. Is Judd really worth $600k? He is if that's what it takes to keep him.

[footyhead]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
I disagree. To keep him we'd have to pay that much. He is certainly in the top 20 midfielders in the comp, and his potentail puts him in the top 10.

Lets see now, you said "He is certainly in the top 20 midfielders ..." . Well here are 20 midfielders who are better than Jude Bolton ! ! All of these would get picked before him in any team, and they come from only 4 teams !!
If Jude Bolton stays at the Swans on $300 000 + a year , he will always be an over paid pretty boy midfielder - which is what he is now !

1 Peter Burgoyne
2 Jarrad Schofield
3 Kane Cornes

4 Jason Akermanis
5 Simon Black
6 Voss
7 Luke Power
8 Nigel lappin

9 Luke Ball
10 Nick Dal Santo
11 Heath Black
12 Robert Harvey
13 Lenny Hayes

14 Gary Ablett
15 James Bartel
16 Joel Corey
17 Cameron Ling

18 Adem Yze
19 James McDonald
20 Cameron Bruce

I really wish a few of Sydney's fans knew what the hell they were talking about. Jude Bolton would be lucky to be in the top 40 midfielders of the competition !
God, it is no wonder the Swans are still about 10 years away from winning a flag, just about all their fans wear rose glasses. There is no one to keep the administration accountable.
It's a real love in of mediocrity around this place.

[footyhead]

Originally posted by swansrule100
i think judes 300k is well deserved..

at worst he is an above average midfielder and 300k is the going rate

???????????? Come again ?? Above average ?? Jude is extreamly Average. Last year is the only year he has been any where near above average !

[footyhead]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Who is? Kirk?

YES. kirk is miles ahead of Bolton.

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by footyhead
???????????? Come again ?? Above average ?? Jude is extreamly Average. Last year is the only year he has been any where near above average !

Footyhead - noone on this forum respects your opinion anyway. The list of players you put up has several players who are in no way better than Jude, and their stats show it. If Bolton was average, he wouldn't be playing AFL. The only question is whether he can fulfill his potential, especially now that he is one of the senior players on the list.

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by Schneiderman

$300k doesn't buy you a whole lot of talent these days. If the salary cap is $6mil and you have 40 players to support off that, the average pay is $150k. Then you have to consider all of your rookies and first/second year players are on less the $50k, and your veterans dont count in the cap. At that rate, most run-of-the-mill players are on $150k+ and your better players push up to $300k easily. Then you have your top group on $400 to $500k, unless you have one superstar on $500k+.

Is Judd really worth $600k? He is if that's what it takes to keep him.

Just out of curiosity, who do you consider to be our run of the mill, better players, top group & superstars ... in regards to money pecking order?

I can think of a few who contribute week in week out, show potential, but who are probably on less than $300,000.


If there was no salary cap Judd could basically write whatever amount he wanted on his cheque. No offense to Jude, but he would probably still be getting around what he is now. IMO thats the difference.

As for the comment about nobody respecting Footyheads opinion, they are his opinions, and like you and the rest of us ... he is entitled to them.

[footyhead]

---------------------------------------

You my friend, are a little bit of a wrong'un !

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by Ruda Wakening
Just out of curiosity, who do you consider to be our run of the mill, better players, top group & superstars ... in regards to money pecking order?

I can think of a few who contribute week in week out, show potential, but who are probably on less than $300,000.

Hall, Goodes, Davis, OLoughlin are on top dollar.

Ball, Saddo, Jude, Fosdike, Crouch, Barry and a few others would be in the better player group.

Kirk, Matthews, Kennelly, Nicks, Doyle, and numerous others would be in the run-of-the-mill category.

Much of the pay rates would be determined by things like age, performances at the time of the contract creation, length of contract to go, and whether there was a "poaching" fee involved (Davis and Hall in particular).

Considering Sydney is in the top 5 for salary cap spend (although we have one of the shortest veterans lists) these players get paid quite well.

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Hall, Goodes, Davis, OLoughlin are on top dollar.

Ball, Saddo, Jude, Fosdike, Crouch, Barry and a few others would be in the better player group.

Kirk, Matthews, Kennelly, Nicks, Doyle, and numerous others would be in the run-of-the-mill category.

Much of the pay rates would be determined by things like age, performances at the time of the contract creation, length of contract to go, and whether there was a "poaching" fee involved (Davis and Hall in particular).

Considering Sydney is in the top 5 for salary cap spend (although we have one of the shortest veterans lists) these players get paid quite well.

One of your top dollar group wouldn't be within in a bulls roar of the other three, but i bet he wishes you were his manager

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by Ruda Wakening
One of your top dollar group wouldn't be within in a bulls roar of the other three, but i bet he wishes you were his manager

Its because of the scalpers fees. Sydney wouldn't have gotten him for less, regardless of what people think of his ability.

When BBBH came up here, he wasn't worth it either. Thats the gamble you take as a coach.

IMO, Davis will pay it all back eventually. Losing Cresswell to Geelong has put him back a long way, but someone else will step in and be the right sort of mentor. Dont forget he's only 24. He's had an injury riddled year and kicked 32 goals last year.

His first game back on Sat showed how important he is to us in the forward line. He still has a tonne of talent, and as the third/fourth forward he will give other teams plenty of headaches yet.

[footyhead]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
"Footyhead - noone on this forum respects your opinion anyway".

....
It matters little what opinions you have about me, but you are wrong that no one on R & W respects my opinion. I will caution you to be more polite in the future or suffer the consequences.
........

In the mean time, let me point somethings out to you.
You have said on this thread things like :

"The list of players you put up has several players who are in no way better than Jude, and their stats show it."
.......

Stats schmats! Is Jude Bolton a better player than James Hird because Jude has a higher kicking stats count than James this season ?
You are ignorant about some of the most basic facts known about football ie : stats can be decieving .
Just because a player is getting high stats as the 1st or 2nd best midfielder in one of the weakest midfields in the competition, does not neccesarily mean that that player is exceptional, or better than the 3rd best player in an excellent midfielded team, even though the latter maybe getting less stats per game.
The chances are that a excellent midfielder in a team like Brisbane given a more prominant role in a team like The Swans, would excel and get far better stats than pretty boy Bolton does at the moment.

If you want to talk about stats I will give you the only stats you need to consider.
Being the boorish troglodyte that you obviously are, you came out and made a grandiose statment that you could not back up:

"Bolton is certainly in the top 20 midfielders of the AFL" ! ! !

You were wrong and here are the only numbers you need consider to under stand the error of your way:

1 M.Voss 11 C.Judd
2 J.Akermanis 12 P.Bell
3 S.Black 13 Adam Simpson
4 N.Lappin 14 Nick Stevens
5 L.Hayes 15 Scott Camporeale
6 R.Harvey 16 Mark Ricciuto
7 Chad Cornes 17 Andrew McLeod
8 Buckley 18 Cameron Ling
9 J.Hird 19 Shannon Grant
10 Scott West 20 Adem Yze

SEE ? Bolton is definatley not in the top 20 , you don't know what you are talking about.
Everyone of the players listed above is a midfield star. Everyone of them is, unquestionably better than Jude Bolton.
So please stop mouthing off at people just because you think you know better than they do. You do not.
You are quite clearly an ignoramus and such fatuous postings as the one about Jude being in the top 20 midfielders, makes you look silly.

[ScottH]

Good on Jude, he may not have the silky skills and talent of the elite midfielders, But he is always in there trying his heart out.

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Its because of the scalpers fees. Sydney wouldn't have gotten him for less, regardless of what people think of his ability.

IMO, Davis will pay it all back eventually. Losing Cresswell to Geelong has put him back a long way, but someone else will step in and be the right sort of mentor. Dont forget he's only 24. He's had an injury riddled year and kicked 32 goals last year.

I'm the last person you need to tell about Nick and his ability.

What you're not taking into account regarding him coming to Sydney is -- HE wanted to come here, and wasn't interested in going ANYWHERE else, so there was no reason that he would have been paid the same as those who you class as being in the top dollar bracket.

The 'rumour' that he took a significant pay cut to come home is much closer to the truth.


Losing Cresswell didn't bother him much as far as performance goes. He kicked four, and was having the best game he'd had for a while in the very first game after Cresswell left.

[footyhead]

Originally posted by ScottH
Good on Jude, he may not have the silky skills and talent of the elite midfielders, But he is always in there trying his heart out.

No one is criticizing Jude's endeavour, only the misapplication of the term "elite" to his endeavour's.

[swansrule100]

Originally posted by footyhead
....
It matters little what opinions you have about me, but you are wrong that no one on R & W respects my opinion. I will caution you to be more polite in the future or suffer the consequences.
........

In the mean time, let me point somethings out to you.
You have said on this thread things like :

"The list of players you put up has several players who are in no way better than Jude, and their stats show it."
.......

Stats schmats! Is Jude Bolton a better player than James Hird because Jude has a higher kicking stats count than James this season ?
You are ignorant about some of the most basic facts known about football ie : stats can be decieving .
Just because a player is getting high stats as the 1st or 2nd best midfielder in one of the weakest midfields in the competition, does not neccesarily mean that that player is exceptional, or better than the 3rd best player in an excellent midfielded team, even though the latter maybe getting less stats per game.
The chances are that a excellent midfielder in a team like Brisbane given a more prominant role in a team like The Swans, would excel and get far better stats than pretty boy Bolton does at the moment.

If you want to talk about stats I will give you the only stats you need to consider.
Being the boorish troglodyte that you obviously are, you came out and made a grandiose statment that you could not back up:

"Bolton is certainly in the top 20 midfielders of the AFL" ! ! !

You were wrong and here are the only numbers you need consider to under stand the error of your way:

1 M.Voss 11 C.Judd
2 J.Akermanis 12 P.Bell
3 S.Black 13 Adam Simpson
4 N.Lappin 14 Nick Stevens
5 L.Hayes 15 Scott Camporeale
6 R.Harvey 16 Mark Ricciuto
7 Chad Cornes 17 Andrew McLeod
8 Buckley 18 Cameron Ling
9 J.Hird 19 Shannon Grant
10 Scott West 20 Adem Yze

SEE ? Bolton is definatley not in the top 20 , you don't know what you are talking about.
Everyone of the players listed above is a midfield star. Everyone of them is, unquestionably better than Jude Bolton.
So please stop mouthing off at people just because you think you know better than they do. You do not.
You are quite clearly an ignoramus and such fatuous postings as the one about Jude being in the top 20 midfielders, makes you look silly.

how did u calculate that??
how is voss the best in the league still?? hes an all time great but injuries have moved him down that list..

ur entitled to ur opinion but i think jude matches a few on that list as of round 21 this year!..... if your talking over an entire career however then its different