Midaro's List Analysis (1-20)

[sharp9]

Mathews had another "normal' game for him....around 20 possessions, 4 or 5 of them really good ones, some good tackles keeping his man reltatively quiet, and 7 or 8 shocking disposals and poor efforts resulting in 3 goals to the opposition.

Lloyd goal came from disgraceful, pathetic, sickeningly poor attack on the ball when Solomon came from 7 metres behind Benny to pick up a rolling ball on our half forward line. I nearly vomited.

Enough said about the pathetic effort resulting in holding the ball. At least make SOME attempt to get rid of the ball, that is the rule!

Collision with Leo (OK this was mostly Leo's fault, but at least Benny could have held onto the ball after getting bumped!)

Several errant handballs and poor kicks mixed with a handful of beauties.

Just not good enough IMO.

On Mark McVeigh, the reason he was BOG for essendon was that he has been moved ionto the midfield, the reason he has been moved into the midfield is that he has pace and hardness (plus good disposal) and that is a combination that none of the other Essendon midfielders have....either slower

Johnson, Johnson, Solomon, Misisti, Mercuri

or softer/younger

Stanton, Dyson, Bullen

or no talent

Alvey

So, all in all Sheedy would be wanting him for the next couple of years at least.

[swansrule100]

My attempt

cant criticise you if im not willing to give my own thoughts so using ur scale heres my attempt

1. Barry Hall
Career Status: Elite
Trade Status: Indispensable
It makes me cringe when "experts" suggest the swans have no champions. Hall has become a premier player in this league

2. Nick Davis
Career Status: Excellent
Trade Status: Indispensable
I dont think he belongs in the midfield, bar key bursts. He is a sharpshooter on the flank and a bloody good one at that.

3. Jarrad McVeigh
Career Status: Unknown
Trade Status: undervalued
Needs more minutes. Wouldnt be worth trading even if we wanted too, but will become a key player in time.

4. Ben Mathews
Career Status: Good
Trade Status: undervalued
underated and much malligned (sp) players. I prefer him running off defence and playing on people like Milne or if he played against the swans Nick Davis. Thats where he belongs to my mind, hes a reliable solid player. Wouldnt get much for him, which is a joke

5.Ryan O'Keefe
Career Status: Excellent
Trade Status: Indispensable
O'Keefe is a must keep player. He has become a key player in the team and must be in the first few chosen week in and week out! Would get a game anywhere because he can kick goals from outside 50.

6. Craig Bolton
Career Status: Good
Trade Status: Tradeable
Has shown great diversity, can even play midfield. He is tradable only because other clubs would give a bit for him and could be a deal struck. BUT..hope he isnt traded, we do need him, provides solid defence, rarely has a bad day.

7. Josh Willoughby
Career Status: Unknown
Trade Status: Valueless
Yet to debut. First year - must be retained on the senior list. AGREED..... must ben given game time in 2005

9. Ben Fixter
Career Status:Fair
Trade Status: Valueless
Injuries have cost him. Theres no doubt he can play, but sentiment and raw talent wont make him a succesful player. Deserves one more year to be judged on, but may need a tough call at the end of 2005. His biggest problem is we have a lot of small players similar to him.

10. Paul Williams
Career Status: Good- Excellent
Trade Status: Valueless
Too old to trade. Seemed ageless to mid this year when injuries have ravaged his year. It may be impossible for him to get back to near his best. But he is a good sharp shooter and could play in the pocket and allow buchanan and schnieder types to play midfield.

11. Stuart Maxfield
Career Status: Fair
Trade Status: Valueless
Showed glimpses mid year about the time he was signed on another year. I was surprised he got the captaincy, if Nicks hadnt of fallen so badly it would of been his i think (he filled in when kel and dunks were injured from memory..nicks that is). But 2003 he was a great contributor. Theres no doubting his ability to captain the side, no doubting he is a champion, but sadly the finish line is closer than he would care to admit! Hopefully a good final series beckons and is a platform for a good solid 2005. He still is capable with his booming left foot. If he plays 2005 should keep the captaincy! (and he is playing)

12. Nic Fosdike
Career Status: Poor- Fair
Trade Status: Tradeable
He was good in 2003 and looked ready to make a move in his career, but he is definite trade bait. When he did take the field this year he looked lost. I rate his career as poor, because he has the talent to be a good to great player and isnt getting there at the moment. Im a fan though and would love to see him succeed, but the swans should be open to offers from other sides.

13. Adam Schneider
Career Status: fair
Trade Status: Indispensable
This year has been disapointing but its due to injuries and being rushed back. Will be a star, but basically has been a one year player and one year can be a fluke... am sure it wont be

15. Stephen Doyle
Career Status: Fair- good
Trade Status: Indispensable
This guy is thriving with game time and no injuries. Is going to take on the number one ruck roll, but needs a backup or reasonable if not equivalent talent. Even if that means Goodes rucks again (if thats an option)

17. Tadhg Kennelly
Career Status: Excellent
Trade Status: Indispensable
I think this guy is a marvel. He is going to be a 200 game player at this club. Wont be traded. He could always bulk up later on in his career and play a key position backline position (though doubtful) because he is tall, would get a game in any team.

18. Heath James
Career Status: poor
Trade Status: Valueless
Injuries have cost him. But this is the AFL cant hold onto people because of sentiment, hasnt shown enough when in, hasnt really had a chance, but sadly his body has cost him. At best gets one more year!

19. Michael O'Loughlin
Career Status: Excellent
Trade Status: Indispensable
YOU DONT TRADE MATCHWINNERS! thats all that needs to be said

20. Luke Ablett
Career Status: Fair
Trade Status: tradeable
I think with game time he is showing some good form. He is a good wingman and could end up with a reasonable career. May be tradeable to geelong, they love abletts!

[BAM_BAM]

Originally posted by robbieando
With Magic on his last legs and no real options playing in Canberra to replace him, why trade O'Keefe????

finally some sanity. Why we would want to trade our third tall in the current forward set up. As Robbie points out as much as none of us want it to happen, Magic is fragile and could easily succumb to an injury. Or as we saw with Saddo when he was making his presence in the forward line felt. And who would we replace him with if Pebbles was gone.

We'd be mad to even think about trading him. His role is not just that of forward, his play further up field has increased this year and works in tandem with Barry at doing this if the forwards aren't getting the ball. He has also been used between the backline and midfield to plug holes late in the 3rd and final quarters. And as I've said many times before he runs and runs all game. I still stand by my bold statement last year that he could be a potential attacking midfielder. Quick hands, great tackler and when on the run outside 50 ....... oh my!

[swansrule100]

Originally posted by BAM_BAM
finally some sanity. Why we would want to trade our third tall in the current forward set up. As Robbie points out as much as none of us want it to happen, Magic is fragile and could easily succumb to an injury. Or as we saw with Saddo when he was making his presence in the forward line felt. And who would we replace him with if Pebbles was gone.

We'd be mad to even think about trading him. His role is not just that of forward, his play further up field has increased this year and works in tandem with Barry at doing this if the forwards aren't getting the ball. He has also been used between the backline and midfield to plug holes late in the 3rd and final quarters. And as I've said many times before he runs and runs all game. I still stand by my bold statement last year that he could be a potential attacking midfielder. Quick hands, great tackler and when on the run outside 50 ....... oh my!

u rate him then... sounded like it faded out before u went on to an complete anaylsis of okeefe :P

hes a bloody awesome talent wouldnt trade him EXCEPT for half the lions line up

[Bart]

Originally posted by sharp9
Mathews had another "normal' game for him....around 20 possessions, 4 or 5 of them really good ones, some good tackles keeping his man reltatively quiet, and 7 or 8 shocking disposals and poor efforts resulting in 3 goals to the opposition.

Agree, I thought Mathews was awful in the first half

[Wazza]

"My best case realistic trade for this year would be:
OUT: O'Keefe + Fosdike
IN: M McVeigh + Hayes (Not sure of contract status)"

There is no way anyone would trade O,Keefe for McVeigh??

O'Keefe is one of the reasons our forward line has functioned he takes a tallish defender away from Hall and Micky so teams cant afford to double team one of these guys.

Adam Schneider has had 1 good year as a rookie, gee weve seen plenty of rookies have a good 1st year, and I have to laugh about him playing in the midfield his fitness would have to improve at least 30% from where it was in his 1st year.

So I would trade Scneider before Fosdike or O'Keefe.

Ive said in earlier posts Ben mathews RECEIVES a lot of ball but is an awfull decision maker and user of the ball. Mathews has looked ok when the Swans have won, dont base how good he is on the number of kicks he RECEIVES. Id rather have a Nick Davis 5 kicks and 3 goals against a Ben Mathews 22 disposals 4 clangers ( that probably cost goals) anytime.

Just my 2 cents

Cheers Waz

[midaro]

Originally posted by sharp9
Mathews had another "normal' game for him....
<SNIP>

Sharp9's description is closer to my impression of Mathews.
When I think of how he plays, this scenario comes to mind...

Schauble/Barry/C Bolton have won the ball, deep in the D50.
The ball is kicked to Mathews (by himself) on the 50.
He plays on, moving at quarter pace.
...holds it ...holds it.
He shields his eyes as he looks up the ground.
...holds it ...holds it.
He is challenged by an opponent.
He handballs to someone under pressure.
There's a chain of about six handballs in quick succession plus numerous tackles and bumps as we desperately regain control.
Now it's back with Mathews on the 50.
He plays on, moving at half pace.
...holds it ...holds it.
He shields his eyes as he looks up the ground.
...holds it ...holds it.
He kicks a 35m floater to a contest on the wing.
Throw in on the wing.

Summary: 1 mark, 1 kick, 7 handballs, 5 tackes = 35m to little advantage.
...but it's just an impression, I will watch him more carefully from now on.

[midaro]

Originally posted by Wazza
"My best case realistic trade for this year would be:
OUT: O'Keefe + Fosdike
IN: M McVeigh + Hayes (Not sure of contract status)"

There is no way anyone would trade O,Keefe for McVeigh??

I'm not saying O'Keefe for McVeigh (that would be insane).

I'm saying of those who I've decribed as tradeable, O'Keefe + Fosdike may have equivalent trade value to M McVeigh + Hayes (or Kerr or Fletcher or any number of good young midfielders).
Such a trade might actually involve numerous clubs and draft picks.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by sharp9
Mathews had another "normal' game for him....around 20 possessions, 4 or 5 of them really good ones, some good tackles keeping his man reltatively quiet, and 7 or 8 shocking disposals and poor efforts resulting in 3 goals to the opposition.

That sums him up to some degree. A fairly frustrating player at times.

I used to bag Mathews mercilessly about two years ago, and copped a lot of flak for doing so.

Last year I thought he improved a lot. This year he is mixed.

At times he plays really well - finds space and delivers the ball perfectly. Other times he fumbles, mangles the ball sideways 20m or just doesn't know what to do.

He usually plays reasonably well defensively, although I've seen him towelled up a couple of times.

Really not sure as sometimes he seems like he will be a valuable player but then he lets you down.

[Nico]

Anyone who even remotely suggests we trade Micky and O'Keefe knows nothing about football talent.

[Ryan Bomford]

Originally posted by midaro
The ball is kicked to Mathews (by himself) on the 50.
He plays on, moving at quarter pace.
...holds it ...holds it.
He shields his eyes as he looks up the ground.
...holds it ...holds it.
He is challenged by an opponent.

Midaro, you forgot this detail: While holding the ball and shielding his eyes he fails to see, and/or purposefully dishonours the hard running leads of three teammates who are 10 metres clear of their opponent .. hence the hurried handball to a teammate under pressure.

[hammo]

Originally posted by Nico
Anyone who even remotely suggests we trade Micky and O'Keefe knows nothing about football talent.

I agree Nico

[midaro]

Originally posted by Nico
Anyone who even remotely suggests we trade Micky and O'Keefe knows nothing about football talent.

If your criticism relates to trading both Micky and O'Keefe at the same time - yes, that would be idiotic. Changing a strength into a weakness like that would be madness.

...but if you're saying that we shouldn't trade talent fullstop, I think you're being naive. Sacrificing O'Keefe to get a gun midfielder - and therefore more supply to Hall, O'Loughlin & Davis - would be sound strategy.

[robbieando]

Originally posted by midaro
...but if you're saying that we shouldn't trade talent fullstop, I think you're being naive. Sacrificing O'Keefe to get a gun midfielder - and therefore more supply to Hall, O'Loughlin & Davis - would be sound strategy.

But if O'Loughlin's knee finally gives way we have no real replacement for him - thats NOT sound strategy.

[midaro]

Originally posted by robbieando
But if O'Loughlin's knee finally gives way we have no real replacement for him - thats NOT sound strategy.

You could make that argument for every position on the ground, and therefore never be able to trade.

If Barry Hall does his knee in Round 1 we have no replacement at all. Schauble either (IMO much of our trouble this year can be attributed to his absence). If any of those things happen, our team would suffer - no question.

If we traded O'Keefe, for Hayes/Fletch/Kerr then O'Loughlin was lost to injury, would we be any worse off than if we didn't trade O'Keefe and O'Loughlin was lost to injury?

I'd back a forward line with Hall, Davis, Schneider and 10+% more inside 50s, to kick more goals than Hall, Davis, Schneider, O'Keefe and our current midfield.