Healy on the Swans

[NMWBloods]

Just so error-riddled now...

[liz]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

The Swans era from 2003-2005 is becoming very similar to 1996-98 and we know what happened after that...

98 was a good year though, probably a more solid challenge to the flag than 1996, which was mostly built on Roos, Plugger and Kelly. In 1998 we had three very good senior midfielders, with Cressa having lifted from tagger to play maker and Schwatta adding additional skill in his B&F year.

We probably have more depth in the 16-22 positions at the moment, but still not enough at the top end. It was Kelly's knee injury, after all, that probably put pay to the 1998 challenge even though we battled through to a semi-final.

Williams, Bolton and Kirk are probably our three closest equivalents now, with Kirk having had a similar progression in role to Cressa but Williams and Bolton are nowhere near at the level, in combination, of Schwass and PK at their best. And now that we're without Willo for up to a couple of months, it's hard to see where the drive is going to come from unless Davis can really turn it on.

Our forward line is far more varied than in 1998, where it was still highly dependent on Plugger. Our defence is probably more even, though we don't have a Dunks.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by liz
98 was a good year though, probably a more solid challenge to the flag than 1996, which was mostly built on Roos, Plugger and Kelly.

Yeah, I was actually thinking the other day that at the moment it looks like we have by-passed '98 and gone straight onto '99. I thought we were a genuine chance in '98, although there were danger signs about our half forward line in a few games.

Still, there is time to improve - let's see what they can do in the rest of the year. I still think we'll make finals, I just don't think we can do much there unless we finally peak at the right time!

Williams, Bolton and Kirk are probably our three closest equivalents now, with Kirk having had a similar progression in role to Cressa but Williams and Bolton are nowhere near at the level, in combination, of Schwass and PK at their best.

Yeah, I would actually put Williams' effectiveness at his best pretty close to either Schwass or Kelly, although naturally he's past his best now.

Our forward line is far more varied than in 1998, where it was still highly dependent on Plugger. Our defence is probably more even, though we don't have a Dunks.

Yep - our forward line is potentially much better, but as you noted earlier our engine room is lacking.

[liz]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

Still, there is time to improve - let's see what they can do in the rest of the year. I still think we'll make finals, I just don't think we can do much there unless we finally peak at the right time!

Even back in 1998 we had a down spot a few weeks in. IIRC we won the first four or five games that year but then collapsed in a heap that it took a while to crawl out of.

The frustrating thing is that we know that this team can play and can play well, even allowing for the absence of Williams. It is essentially the same group of blokes that did well in 2003, with maybe the contribution of Maxfield the obvious thing that is missing at the moment (and possibly, to a lesser extent, an exuberant Schneider).

Maybe they're not quite up to challenging with the very best but I don't think they are that far off if they can regain that 2003 mindset.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by liz
Even back in 1998 we had a down spot a few weeks in. IIRC we won the first four or five games that year but then collapsed in a heap that it took a while to crawl out of.

Yeah - I was looking through that just before. We were 7-2 and then we were smashed by StKilda, Essendon, Carlton and Adelaide in 4 of the next 5 weeks. We did bounce back well by winning 6 of the last 8 though. We were pretty ordinary in finals again though.

Maybe they're not quite up to challenging with the very best but I don't think they are that far off if they can regain that 2003 mindset.

That's the tricky thing - what is it they need to recover that? Is it recoverable or will other sides work us out too easily? Do the guys have enough resolve in them to bounce back like we did in '98?

[liz]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Yeah - I was looking through that just before. We were 7-2 and then we were smashed by StKilda, Essendon, Carlton and Adelaide in 4 of the next 5 weeks. We did bounce back well by winning 6 of the last 8 though. We were pretty ordinary in finals again though.

One will always assess finals losses as being poor, probably more so than H&A games because there is no coming back.

But we did cop our fair share of bad luck. We played two consecutive games in the wet, which certainly didn't play to our strengths and, having gutsed it out in the first against the Saints came up against the eventual premiers who were probably the most naturally skilled team (and thus best in the wet). Remember also that we lost either Cressa or Schwatta (can't remember which) in the opening minutes of that game and were already without PK.

It was certainly a disappointing way to go down but not as bad as 1997, 1999, 2001 where we were completely lousy in finals.

Originally posted by NMWBloods

That's the tricky thing - what is it they need to recover that? Is it recoverable or will other sides work us out too easily? Do the guys have enough resolve in them to bounce back like we did in '98?

Don't see why not. After all we did it in 2003 after losing 3 of the first 4. I don't believe in history necessarily repeating itself but we've seen a consistent pattern of very flat spots during a season but then a recovery good enough to put ourselves in the running.

[Mike_B]

Originally posted by liz
Remember also that we lost either Cressa or Schwatta (can't remember which) in the opening minutes of that game and were already without PK.

It was Cressa. He broke his jaw that night but as it was our last game of the season he didn't have his then record consecutive games streak broken.

[Benevolent Ert]

also lost Micky O during that game - was not fun

[footyhead]

Very good points Liz,
As I see it Rocket had something on his side which was able to help his team recover form after a slump: Experience, and the determined commitment to the lessons of that experience.
We must not forget that Eade (%wise)was one of the most winningest coaches at reserves level.
This experience stood him in very good stead when the chips where down.
Roosy remarkably has had little or no time coaching reserves, and very little experience under the tutelage of great coaches , (the excepted prerequisite to a senior coaching position). Eade had been under one of the best for many years. This may now be the time that the old adage and tradition proves it's own wisdom.
Roos has so far shown himself to be a one trick poney. The trick was to give the players back their confidence and sense of autonomy by "giving them their head" and telling them to enjoy their footy. It really worked in 2003, There was no pressure, Roosy kept say we are still in a rebuilding faze it don't matter what happens- so there was less pressure and they kept on winning.
But all Roos's other tricks have not worked (the ultra flood in my opinion has destroyed the confidance of the players and their joy in performing their duties).
The problem for Roosy is that he has no experience at actually turning a team around, nor does he have the experience of taking any team in any league to a flag! Unlike Rocket!!!
He now must either completly give the players their head once more, and hope that they have the inherent ability to bounce back, OR:

Do something he has never done in his life. IE: Turn a losing team in crisis around with some insightful and ingenious coaching which is tactically and strategically and psychologically brilliantly enough to lead this team and these players on to substantiated victory and victories! This is not the same thing as in 2003. It is a far more comprehensively demanding situation.

Can he do it ??
Nobody yet knows. Anybody who says they do is a fibber. These are precarious days for the Swans.

The Swans in fact may well have made a very big mistake in giving such an inexperienced coach the senior job!
Personally I would prefer them to not make the eight than just scrape in and exit the 1 st week. Cos that kind of thing only serves to compound the problems in the long term.

[TheHood]

I know the Lions were depleted severly the other day but did anyone see the commitment of the Hawks?

They didn't have their 2nd best player in Joel Smith and still flogged the Lions.

They did it without fear and with commitment for the ball and driving forward to leading targets (Williams mostly).

They were excellent and after watching us get towelled up on our home ground, I thought we should have learnt something from this enthusiasm.

What happened to the mantra that we play for each other, we play with our heads on (shocking kicking, floaters, no direction nothing).

It comes back to Liz's point about fear of error. Plough and Clarko both have their young teams playing a simple brand of footy:

Keep running
Kick it long
Be a target
Lead at the ball
Chase and tackle hard

To put it bluntly, 'WE'RE FAFFING".

[j s]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
I think Liz is right.

I know Liz is right!

It was really noticable at the Gabba that in the first half the handball receivers were mostly stationary so immediately had to handball off again (to another stationary teammate) to avoid being caught. In the second half they had the confidence to be already running when they received so were able to break away into space.

It was confidence that the ball *would* come out that allowed them to be running.

[Thunder Shaker]

Originally posted by Ert
also lost Micky O during that game - was not fun

That's twice we've played the Crows at the SCG and lost when we had two good players injured during the game.

What I would like to see during a Swans-Crows game would be a couple of payback games:
Football Park - Crows vs Swans, Riccuto gets injured in the first quarter, then they lose a star forward in the second, and we smash them in the final quarter. (Payback for 1998, 2005)

SCG - Swans vs Crows, we win by less than a goal thanks to a dubious umpiring decision. (Payback for 2004)

Oh yes, I loathe the Crows. Port I can handle, but not the Crows.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Thunder Shaker
Oh yes, I loathe the Crows. Port I can handle, but not the Crows.

For me it's the other way around. However, I'm sure that will change over time with change in personnel at coaching and player level.

[Rizzo]

I've got more bad memories about games where we played the Crows than most other teams. The Roos would have to be second.....

[cruiser]

Exposure to a teams supporters will do it too. I have noticed that every time we play the Crows at the SCG, there are always a few Crows supporters there (give em time and they may switch across if they now live in Sydney). And some of them are incredible loud mouths, carrying on like I wouldnt dare to do if I were at AAMI Stadium. Its just bloody rude for Crows supporters sitting in the SCG members area to dish out ridicule to Swans supporters leaving near the end of the game. This happens everytime they beat us at home.

Port supporters are worse although you dont get so many of them at Sydney home games as most of them are illiterate ferals who dont (and cant) move far from where they were born in Adelaide's north west.