Season 2016 - early days

[tara]

Absolutely agree that anything you can do to keep kids playing footy is a priority.
There would be each year at least 100 kids across Sydney juniors who finish U/17's and don't go on to play senior footy.
Whole host of reasons but amongst those reasons is the jump from 17's to 19's (particularly Div1) is big. So a pathway, wether it is an academy, a 2nd 19's (less serious) team or with some clubs a 19's team is crucial to keeping the young guys in the game.
Also the guys like to play with their mates (how often have you heard that) and when the guys look at playing Div 4 or 5 footy (as opposed to 19's) they cant see the mate factor.
If you can get a 19's program happening you are going to get 10+ 19-20 year olds coming into the higher grades each year, what club wouldn't want that.

I agree that anything that keeps the kids in the game is great. Unfortunately in my recent experience over the past 8 years team that have 2 under 19's dont really have the necessary numbers to run two teams independently. By that I mean the second team is always short or they feel the need to manipulate results and hide behind the excuse of that kid wasnt available to play div 1 on the said day or time. So when a team drops their star players to their struggling div 2 team and they have a win against another club who is a genuine struggling div 2 team how the hell does this help in developing/encouraging kids to play afl?

[Pmcc2911]

You make some good points, on of the issues that makes it hard is as I understand it is a SFL rule that a player cant play two 19's games on the same day. So cant play 19/2 and then back up for 19/1.
It is ok for a player to play 19's and then double up and play senior grades in one.
It doesn't make sense to me but I guess there must be a reason for the rule.

Also strong relationships with the junior clubs and developing an environment where they will lend 17's players to help out is important.

With respect of clubs dropping stars to the lower team, you will always have "flag chasers" and long term that doesnt pay off.

[Mug Punter]

You make some good points, on of the issues that makes it hard is as I understand it is a SFL rule that a player cant play two 19's games on the same day. So cant play 19/2 and then back up for 19/1.
It is ok for a player to play 19's and then double up and play senior grades in one.
It doesn't make sense to me but I guess there must be a reason for the rule.

Also strong relationships with the junior clubs and developing an environment where they will lend 17's players to help out is important.

With respect of clubs dropping stars to the lower team, you will always have "flag chasers" and long term that doesnt pay off.

In my opinion the you really only need two requirements and they are

(1) A whatever it takes approach from the club that they will honour their fixture list for both grades (and have some major points penalties for their #1 U19 team if they do - I'd say for every game forfeited the First U19 loses 8 competition points)

(2) Don't try and segregate the two teams but have a simple finals eligibility rule that really stops any sandbagging of the #2 team

It would help of course if the U19 Div 1 and Under 19 Div 2 played on different days as doubling up would be something these boys need to sign up for to give their mates a game if required. Topping up from the U17s is a great idea - I remember having guys I played with in U17s getting called up to play SFL U19s (again, doubling up) and it was a privilege not a burden.

Tara's issue of dropping players down to the second U19 is valid but again, would you prefer a forfeit? Maybe the first team list its top 10 players and those players can only play in the second team if they are doubling up for the weekend....

Until we see growth of the U19s then any talk about the game growing in Sydney at the grassroots level is just delusional. I can see a bit of a two tiered system coming on though. I can see Norths, Penno, Easts (drawing on Maroubra) and St George having two or even three U19 teams within 10 years and I can see the likes of Parramatta, Wests and the GWS teams (Moorebank, Camden etc) perennially struggling. The challenge is to support those clubs whilst not holding back the others.

Of course it doesn't help that GWS are doingf F-All to develop their own backyard

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't Penrith bring in some coach from WAFL or somewhere decent in the year they got flogged in div 1? I remember an article on the website about it. He still around?

Highly rated interstate coaches have a pretty potted history in Sydney football, especially at the lower divisions where local contacts and recruitment are so important.

[saviour01]

I've watched a few u19s div 2 games. Surely they just market it as social footy and "come have a kick with your mates". Sure, good for numbers around the club and bringing people up into div 3/4/5 but it couldn't be too good for development.

[Pekay]

By Christ you're a wanker.

I've watched a few u19s div 2 games. Surely they just market it as social footy and "come have a kick with your mates". Sure, good for numbers around the club and bringing people up into div 3/4/5 but it couldn't be too good for development.

[unconfuseme]

The problem with the clubs who have poor div 2 u/19's is not the coaching or the culture of the club once they get there, but the lack of juniors to draw from and/or the poor pathways development.

This is a blight on the AFL, whom still have no clue how to do anything about it, so just keep doing the hings that have failed before. Sadly those who are employed to develop the junior clubs are only concerned about looking after their jobs, and simply adopt the "Yes Minister" approach.

However, the onus is also on the senior clubs to do something about pathway development, or keep getting the same results.

The clubs that do that will be the power houses of the competition in the future.

[tara]

I've watched a few u19s div 2 games. Surely they just market it as social footy and "come have a kick with your mates". Sure, good for numbers around the club and bringing people up into div 3/4/5 but it couldn't be too good for development.

Have to agree with Pekay here you are a complete wanker with a loose grip on reality.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

There are plenty of kids playing div 2 that St George would happily have targeted over the years to come to them. Lets see it wasn't all that long ago a few kids who played with us in their first year of 19's were playing round one the following year in your beloved dragons PD team including being the first rising star nomination that year so I guess their development suffered.

There is a kid who played for me this year as an under age kid all year who I expect will be a star for St George for years to come.

Why dont you ask Craig Guthrie if his sons development suffered playing div 2 under 19's champ?

[The Runt]

Complete contradiction here
"Have to agree with Pekay here you are a complete wanker with a loose grip on reality."

[GallopingGoanna]

I didn't think the 19's div 2 standard was to bad last year. Our boys going up to Div 1 next year and it is a rise in standard but think we will be competitive.

[Coastal Boy]

My 2 cents worth on St George and a 3rd opens mens team.
I have always considered Southern Power to be St Georges 3rd and 4th team.
Yeah I know they are different clubs but they share the same junior base and didn't see a need for St George to expand because Southern Power could accommodate any overflow.
When divisionalisation took off in 2011 and clubs like ECE, Norths and Wests add new teams(from memory) it was not good timing for St George. Their reserves were struggling and despite the fact they probably could have added a 3rd team many times over the past 20 years, at that moment it was not happening.
I have heard adding a 3rd open team has put a lot of pressure on clubs. Many of the volunteers now choose to play and thus there is a massive drain of support staff. A home fixture cannot always accommodate 4 games which adds more pressure to support staff as games are played over many venues. Often the added team comes with no more sponsorship which can be problematic. Teams like Penno dropped their thirds in 2011 and ECE and Norths went down a division from Div 3 in 2012 and 2013. Penno has since bounced back magnificently which emphasises that timing could be everything.
So good luck to St George if they choose to enter another opens teams. I fully appreciate and understand why they have sensibly resisted expansion. I hope their timing is good and it is a success whenever it happens.

[saviour01]

Haha nah only stirring. I've literally seen 10 minutes of div 2 19s footy since I got involved in afl about 5 years ago. Forum gets boring. Tbh, probably my level anyway.

Be interesting to see if we do get our 3rd senior side. All depends on numbers we get down in the pre season.

[unconfuseme]

Moorebank has been a fantastic result and example of the importance of Div 2 u/19's. They have provided an early pathway for many juniors to transition to senior football over a number of years. Some of those players have aspired to higher levels of football, but the vast majority heve and will stay involved in the game, and it will be with Moorebank ... and this is a club that didn't exist not that long ago!

Sadly, they now face a massive struggle, as the effect of the AFL's abandonment of Bankstown Juniors has it's impact, starting in 2016.

Fact - in 2014 and 2015 there were sufficient numbers (30+) of former Bankstown Sports JAFL players registered and playing u/19's Sydney wide, most of whom had come through pre-season programs with Moorebank, and later St George and Power, that they could have fielded a stand alone BANKSTOWN team, that would have been Div 1 quality. Many of those boys went to Moorebank.

That source has now dried up, and the junior clubs that Moorebank have fostered are still in their development phases, so it will be tough.

I do not expect to see a junior competitive player, let alone team come out of Bankstown for another 30 years.

Take a bow AFL Greater Sydney Juniors, the demise of Bankstown has cost the Sydney u/19's a complete competitive team - love your work!

[tara]

Moorebank has been a fantastic result and example of the importance of Div 2 u/19's. They have provided an early pathway for many juniors to transition to senior football over a number of years. Some of those players have aspired to higher levels of football, but the vast majority heve and will stay involved in the game, and it will be with Moorebank ... and this is a club that didn't exist not that long ago!

Sadly, they now face a massive struggle, as the effect of the AFL's abandonment of Bankstown Juniors has it's impact, starting in 2016.

Fact - in 2014 and 2015 there were sufficient numbers (30+) of former Bankstown Sports JAFL players registered and playing u/19's Sydney wide, most of whom had come through pre-season programs with Moorebank, and later St George and Power, that they could have fielded a stand alone BANKSTOWN team, that would have been Div 1 quality. Many of those boys went to Moorebank.

That source has now dried up, and the junior clubs that Moorebank have fostered are still in their development phases, so it will be tough.

I do not expect to see a junior competitive player, let alone team come out of Bankstown for another 30 years.

Take a bow AFL Greater Sydney Juniors, the demise of Bankstown has cost the Sydney u/19's a complete competitive team - love your work!

Actually the AFL are trying to get a 15's at Kelso up and running again. Must say I like the new jumpers(not) - Great GWS design with the G replaced with a B. It shows real initiative.

Was really confused when I provided them an in with a local HS and they indicated that it would help with the revival of Bankstown. I was pretty confused given Liverpool is far closer to this school than Bankstown however it appears that they have completely given up on Liverpool juniors it appears.

The school wanted the AFL to look at running a high performance program similar to that being run by them with other sports. They currently run RL with the Bulldogs and Soccer with the Wanderers. Unfortunately it appears a bit too hard for the AFL. This school has a number of kids who used to play AFL in the region however with the travel involved at junior level in the west gave it away to play sports more convienient. It may sound like a cop out but when you have siblings also involved at sport and you rely on parents to get you around then events that take the whole day are foregone.

If the AFL really wanted to fast track development in the West it would put a concerted effort into multiple competitions for example a South West comp involving Bankstown, Liverpool, Ingleburn, Campbelltown, Camden, South Campbelltow, South West Tigers and Wollondilly. It that was a competition that was set up again the travel would become less problematic and I have no doubt that we would see a very quick turn around in the growth of the game in the region.

[Mug Punter]

If the AFL really wanted to fast track development in the West it would put a concerted effort into multiple competitions for example a South West comp involving Bankstown, Liverpool, Ingleburn, Campbelltown, Camden, South Campbelltow, South West Tigers and Wollondilly. It that was a competition that was set up again the travel would become less problematic and I have no doubt that we would see a very quick turn around in the growth of the game in the region.

It's baffling why GWS don't take the lead with this given their remit

[often_confused]

I've watched a few u19s div 2 games. Surely they just market it as social footy and "come have a kick with your mates". Sure, good for numbers around the club and bringing people up into div 3/4/5 but it couldn't be too good for development.

I absolutely agree with the general outrage. While I am not sure about Rampe and 'Cheese' I do understand that Ty Armitage and Connor Pettersson both came through Div 2 in the then under 18 competition. I suppose on Saviour's view they should be running around in Div 5