St Kilda vs Fremantle - SPOILERS

[australian_made]

Originally posted by Matt79
The result will stand BECAUSE of rule 10.4.1 as it states, "UNTIL a field umpire acknowledges that the siren has been heard and brings an end to play". The umpire did not hear the siren and thus play continued. The draw will stand.

I agree with Matt. Its ultimately the feild umpires decision at the end of the day, they are the ones that are in control of the game. The timekeepers are there to assist in the officiation of the game only.

If the result of a game could be changed due to a mistake of the timekeeper, then i think a rich club like Collingwood would have had a whole lot more to say at Telstra Stadium against us last year.

The feild umpires decision is final. It may be wrong, but it is final. The draw will stand.

[australian_made]

Did anyone else notice a few Freo's players actually TOUCHING the umpires at the end there? Someone appeared to actually grab the umpires arm (ever so briefly) in an attempt to stop that last bounce. If Freo cop a suspension out of this it will be just salt in the wound!

[Matt79]

Originally posted by floppinab
You're right, but as I stated the Timekeepers did not sound the siren until the acknowledgement, 10.4.1 was not followed by the Timekeepers. As such Freo should (have) appealed the result and the result should be changed.

I've seen similar situations before, timekeepers usually keep sounding the horn (beeeeeep, sometimes with gaps, beep, beep, beep) until they get the acknowledgement from the umps.

I certainly understand the view you are taking but rightly or wrongly, it is the field umpire who ultimately decides when the match is 'over'.

For example, how many times in games have we heard the siren go, only for the umpires not to hear it quick enough and a player kick a goal. The score stands as the umpires have the final say. In fact, it occured in round 1 when Camporeale ran into goal and kicked it after the siren had sounded for a Bombers goal against us. It was unfortunate but the umpires decision is final as they say.

[Jeffers1984]

One of the most unbelievable things i have seen on a footy field. Freo need to get their points back for the good of the game.

[NMWBloods]

The rules are quite clear that "The Timekeepers shall sound the siren to signal the end of a quarter until a field umpire acknowledges that the siren has been heard". This was not complied with, so Fremantle has a legitimate complaint.

And we're not talking about occasions where there is a second in it, but one where over ten seconds elapsed.

This is a bit different to complaining about other decisions that affect results. In other cases it is not possible to know for certain what would have happened if something was or wasn't done. In this case there is certainty.

[Big Al]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
The rules are quite clear that "The Timekeepers shall sound the siren to signal the end of a quarter until a field umpire acknowledges that the siren has been heard". This was not complied with, so Fremantle has a legitimate complaint.

And we're not talking about occasions where there is a second in it, but one where over ten seconds elapsed.

This is a bit different to complaining about other decisions that affect results. In other cases it is not possible to know for certain what would have happened if something was or wasn't done. In this case there is certainty.

Absolutely. But since when has the AFL let logic and justice sway their decision making. They will hide behind the rule you mentioned to wash their hands of this.

[Thunder Shaker]

I think the AFL should have a rule about the siren. The siren is an essential communication device. If the siren is not working or the siren is not loud enough, then we have problems.

A few cases in point:

• A few years ago at the MCG (1999?), the siren stopped working at the start of the last quarter. The quarter was eventually started with a hand bell.
• In 1900, St Kilda won a game on appeal after a dispute with the siren at three-quarter time.
• At last year's Grand Final, the final siren was not loud enough to be heard over the crowd.

I think the AFL should have strict rules regarding the siren at the game.[list=1][*]The siren should have a minimum volume of a certain number of decibels when sampled from various parts of the crowd. This minimum value should be variable, based on the size and capacity of the ground.[*]There should be a backup siren that does not require an external power source to operate. This could be a battery-powered siren (such as a real siren consisting of a spinning disk with a compressed air stream, or a hand-operated bell).[*]The main siren should have a mechanism that does not require an action by an operator to keep sounding. That is, the operator should not be holding in a button to sound the siren, but instead should have a button or switch to stop sounding.[/list=1]

[Matt79]

Originally posted by Big Al
Absolutely. But since when has the AFL let logic and justice sway their decision making. They will hide behind the rule you mentioned to wash their hands of this.

I am not sure why we are beating up the AFL over this "yet". It was not their fault the siren did not sound properly or the umpires did not hear it. This is a complex matter and it will be interesting to see the follow up in the coming days and imagine the discussion on White Line Fever tomorrow night.

Might be interesting to head over to Dockerland to see their thoughts!!!!

[Thunder Shaker]

Originally posted by Matt79
Might be interesting to head over to Dockerland to see their thoughts!!!!

We should offer Dockerland our support. They did offer us their support after we beat the Eagles last year.

At the Brisbane game, have a banner just behind the cheersquad: "2006 R5 FREO WERE ROBBED". If it's just behind the cheersquad, it will be seen during the game, but if it's not IN the cheersquad, the cheersquad cannot get into trouble...

[floppinab]

Originally posted by Matt79
I am not sure why we are beating up the AFL over this "yet". It was not their fault the siren did not sound properly or the umpires did not hear it.

It was their fault, the siren was working poorly all day. In a tight/loud finish, it was going to be a problem as it was. The AFL has reps. as ground/operations management at every game. It is their responsibility to ensure that rules of the AFL are adhered to and that all equipment, facilities are up to scratch. If they are not then they need to do something about so the game can proceed. If it takes a bell at ground level (as someone else posted about that game at the MCG), then so be it. An alternative should have been arranged such as an air horn used by thousands of suburban football matches countrywide.

[573v30]

This obviously won't blow over, there'll be a lot of talk about the sirens not being heard by umpires and it will certainly be a priority on the Footy Show.

[ROK Lobster]

I'm not really up to be speed here - been in the car since 1/2 time in this game - but was the problem due to a two-bit country yokel siren, the sort that can be heard easilly over a crowd of 43 and a dog but struggles with 10K or so? If so, is it the ground's fault?

[Matt79]

Originally posted by floppinab
It was their fault, the siren was working poorly all day. In a tight/loud finish, it was going to be a problem as it was. The AFL has reps. as ground/operations management at every game. It is their responsibility to ensure that rules of the AFL are adhered to and that all equipment, facilities are up to scratch. If they are not then they need to do something about so the game can proceed. If it takes a bell at ground level (as someone else posted about that game at the MCG), then so be it. An alternative should have been arranged such as an air horn used by thousands of suburban football matches countrywide.

I have no doubt the siren would have been checked prior to the game but unfortunately as happens in all life situations now and then, technical equipment fails even at the most unforseen time. Think of F1 racing, a car can be leading, purring along and then bang, smoke gushes out of who knows where and it is race over.

As unforseen as it may be, technical faults occur dispite everyone's best intentions.

[NMWBloods]

I find it bizarre that the players heard yet not one of 8 umpires heard it.

The AFL will not overturn it. They have already given the all-clear to the TAB to pay out on the draw.

It is a disgrace.

[Matt79]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I find it bizarre that the players heard yet not one of 8 umpires heard it.

It is a disgrace.

We often say that umpires are blind and now they are obviously deaf as well!!