Roos under investigation (-> Cleared)

[AnnieH]

Someone remind me next year to put $200 on the swans losing first round of the ansett cup.

I'm gunna clean up.

[CureTheSane]

They won't @@@@ing tolerate anything except for Carlton's tanking during the season's proper, for which you deny ever happens.

And yet convinced that Roos, throwed a game in the NAB Cup.

I don't accept that it happens until it is proven.

I didn't accept that Roos threw the game until it was proven.

You prove it without your gut feeling.

Ever think that the AFL had a gut feeling but were unable to act on it?
You say that the whole Roos thing was a furphy and there was potential evidence of a thrown game, and then you say that Carlton, with no tangible evidence of throwing games, should be investigated.

You have probably said that investigating Roos was a big waste of money as well.
And then you try to launch an investigation into Carlton which would be as big if not biggest waste of money.

You arguments are flawed.

We live in a real world where you can't just throw accusations, and then act on them without valid grounding.

[TheGrimReaper]

I don't accept that it happens until it is proven.

I didn't accept that Roos threw the game until it was proven.

You prove it without your gut feeling.

Ever think that the AFL had a gut feeling but were unable to act on it?
You say that the whole Roos thing was a furphy and there was potential evidence of a thrown game, and then you say that Carlton, with no tangible evidence of throwing games, should be investigated.

You have probably said that investigating Roos was a big waste of money as well.
And then you try to launch an investigation into Carlton which would be as big if not biggest waste of money.

You arguments are flawed.

We live in a real world where you can't just throw accusations, and then act on them without valid grounding.

Your arguments are flawed. I couldn't work that crap out.

Everyone knows that Carlton tanked last season. Wake up and smell the coffee for once.

[CureTheSane]

What lesson? To keep his mouth shut about something everyone can see but which Andy doesn't anyone to talk about?

No, to be so arrogant as to make a public comment such as he did.

The bigger point is that the basic incompetency of AFL management, which created this farcical situation in the first place. Introducing a different set of rules for pre-season competition and allowing betting on these games, introduces clear conflict of interest for coaches.

Absolutely agree.
Had the AFL not wasted all our time with this stupid comp, the comment would not have been made.

Why was there no investigation of Carlton in the season proper? Why no investigations into half the other teams in this so called 'competition' who clearly, deliberately, performed below par? Paul Roos cracks a joke and they proceed to clock up tens of thousands in legal fees investigating him. What exactly, were they investigating?

I've covered my feelings on the Carlton thing here and elsewhere.
One man's joke is another man's despicable act I guess.
The AFL can't afford to be the judges of whether or not it was a joke, that is what the investigation was for.

It comes down to this. Allowing gambling on a meaningless and trivial competition shows poor management insight. Such a situation is rife for corruption. Betting scandals on one day cricket comes to mind.

Tend to agree, but the gambling happens on this comp, so hopefully those gambling will take into account how the coaches and teams feel about the comp and be more careful where they place their money.
The bigger issue is that if Roos had come out before the game and said "we really don't take this stupid comp seriously, and we don't care if we lose" he would have been fined by the AFL. Not necessarily accused of throwing games, but of speaking out against the AFL.
The way they restrict criticism is my biggest pet hate.

Someone should investigate Demetriou for shoddy management and his fitness to act in the role of a company executive. Someone should scrutinise the board and increase their accountability.

I'm sure that will happen if the need arises.

This whole episode is more evidence that the AFL has stopped regarding footy as part of the fabric of life for fans and the community and simply as a commodity and product, where the goal is revenue and profit. Their principals and standards are now questionnable. They have lost their way.

Been happening since Waverley was canned.

[CureTheSane]

Your arguments are flawed. I couldn't work that crap out.

You didn't understand my arguments?
I understand.

Everyone knows that Carlton tanked last season. Wake up and smell the coffee for once.

The smell of coffee is only outdone by the taste.

[BSA5]

I don't accept that it happens until it is proven.

I didn't accept that Roos threw the game until it was proven.

What are you on about? It wasn't proven at all. That's why he was cleared.

You prove it without your gut feeling.

Ever think that the AFL had a gut feeling but were unable to act on it?
You say that the whole Roos thing was a furphy and there was potential evidence of a thrown game, and then you say that Carlton, with no tangible evidence of throwing games, should be investigated.

You have probably said that investigating Roos was a big waste of money as well.
And then you try to launch an investigation into Carlton which would be as big if not biggest waste of money.

You arguments are flawed.

We live in a real world where you can't just throw accusations, and then act on them without valid grounding.

I agree to an extent with what you're saying about Carlton. There was never any evidence to suggest that Carlton was tanking, so they had nothing, legally speaking, upon which to base an investigation.

I think what Reaper is saying, though, is that the investigation into Roos, as it was carried out, was a waste of time. There's no question that if Roos was overheard saying that, and the people who overheard it were uncertain about whether he was serious or not, that the AFL should look into it, but all they had to do was look at the footage, and have a quick chat to Roos, and all this would have been sorted. Instead they did the whole legal thing without communicating properly, resulting in a lot of money down the drain, a lot of time wasted, and a lot of damaging media speculation. The AFL was right to take action, but the incident was completely mismanaged, quite possibly (though I tend to think it played a very minimal role, and the AFL are just incompetent no matter who they are dealing with) due to Demetriou's strained relationship with Roos.

[CureTheSane]

But not just anyone. And why not Carlton in the last six matches of 2007 when they lost from winning positions they held going into the last quarter in four of those matches. That pattern of losing needs investigation. But sorry the oily one has already declared that clubs don't tank for draft advantages. Must be all ridgy didge

Perhaps Carlton just weren't fit enough to run the game out?
I didn't watch enough Carlton last year to comment effectively.
Maybe the club and supporters thought they were justified in throwing games given the sanctions the AFL placed on the for salary cap breaches?
Maybe I don't give much thought to something that can't be proven.

Let's talk about petrol prices.
Somebody tell me that investigating price fixing is a valuable use of our tax dollars?

[TheGrimReaper]

What are you on about? It wasn't proven at all. That's why he was cleared.



I agree to an extent with what you're saying about Carlton. There was never any evidence to suggest that Carlton was tanking, so they had nothing, legally speaking, upon which to base an investigation.

I think what Reaper is saying, though, is that the investigation into Roos, as it was carried out, was a waste of time. There's no question that if Roos was overheard saying that, and the people who overheard it were uncertain about whether he was serious or not, that the AFL should look into it, but all they had to do was look at the footage, and have a quick chat to Roos, and all this would have been sorted. Instead they did the whole legal thing without communicating properly, resulting in a lot of money down the drain, a lot of time wasted, and a lot of damaging media speculation. The AFL was right to take action, but the incident was completely mismanaged, quite possibly (though I tend to think it played a very minimal role, and the AFL are just incompetent no matter who they are dealing with) due to Demetriou's strained relationship with Roos.

CTS's arguments are flawed.

He disagrees with me and yet I agree with Legs Akimbo and CTS agrees with him. Legs Akimbo and I have been saying the same things but in different words.

Odd! CTS likes arguing for the sake of arguing I think

[CureTheSane]

What are you on about? It wasn't proven at all. That's why he was cleared.

Yes, and if it were proven I would have accepted it.
I'll admit that there was a time where it looked pretty much as if he had instructed players 'not to win'

I agree to an extent with what you're saying about Carlton. There was never any evidence to suggest that Carlton was tanking, so they had nothing, legally speaking, upon which to base an investigation.

Thank you.
It would have been a big waste of time and money.
The AFL don't operate on their feelings.

I think what Reaper is saying, though, is that the investigation into Roos, as it was carried out, was a waste of time. There's no question that if Roos was overheard saying that, and the people who overheard it were uncertain about whether he was serious or not, that the AFL should look into it, but all they had to do was look at the footage, and have a quick chat to Roos, and all this would have been sorted. Instead they did the whole legal thing without communicating properly, resulting in a lot of money down the drain, a lot of time wasted, and a lot of damaging media speculation. The AFL was right to take action, but the incident was completely mismanaged, quite possibly (though I tend to think it played a very minimal role, and the AFL are just incompetent no matter who they are dealing with) due to Demetriou's strained relationship with Roos.

Like I said before, I think the AFL were setting out the ground rules for occurrences like these.

[CureTheSane]

CTS's arguments are flawed.

He disagrees with me and yet I agree with Legs Akimbo and CTS agrees with him. Legs Akimbo and I have been saying the same things but in different words.

Odd! CTS likes arguing for the sake of arguing I think

He has the cognitive ability to understand what I amsaying

[CureTheSane]

Sounds nice. Too hot here to do that. Might have to crack a VB soon though.

Well the Dandenongs are usually a few degrees cooler, and it was quite nice up there.
Too many tourists making the birds all full though.
None to feed
We were back before the real heat hit

What would have happened if Roos had come out in advance and boldly stated 'we do not wish to win this match'? Would he have been fined? I think he would have been in deep @@@@. Yet, he can play 8 year old kids and tell them to run in circiles playing kick to kick and that's okay as long as he doesn't SAY what his actions scream to the world. Meanwhile, people are betting money on the outcomes of these games.

haha, I address this before I read this post
Yep, he would have been fined, and I hate that about the AFL

[NMWBloods]

Although the AFL handled it poorly (as they do with everything) when there is an actual accusation and possible evidence, they need to hold a formal enquiry. This was done and Roos was cleared. In the case of Carlton, despite lots of speculation and accusation, there is no proper evidence and no formal accusation hence they cannot hold a formal enquiry. One suspects they will be looking at it behind the scenes though (but don't expect anything to come of it).

I suspect these are mainly CtS's points too.

[CureTheSane]

Uh-huh.

You mean here Roosgate: My view on the BS!!! - RedAndWhiteOnline.com Messageboard

where I stated that I did not question your authenticity as a Swans supporter.

You got blasted?
Sure, I gave my opinion, which you couldn't handle and then the 'article' sunk into oblivion.

I had no problems with you, but if you're going to PURPOSEFULLY misstate what I said, even after I had clarified it, then I have no time for you.
And you will surely lose whatever credibility you had around here.

I see that Mr.Grim Reaper has no comment on my allegation that he was purposefully trying to mislead the insightful and generally attractive readers of RWO. That makes me sad

I forgive you though

[CureTheSane]

Although the AFL handled it poorly (as they do with everything) when there is an actual accusation and possible evidence, they need to hold a formal enquiry. This was done and Roos was cleared. In the case of Carlton, despite lots of speculation and accusation, there is no proper evidence and no formal accusation hence they cannot hold a formal enquiry. One suspects that will be looking at it behind the scenes though.

I suspect these are mainly CtS's points too.

Just more eloquently presented by you.
Thank you.
Pretty basic stuff.

[TheGrimReaper]

I see that Mr.Grim Reaper has no comment on my allegation that he was purposefully trying to mislead the insightful and generally attractive readers of RWO. That makes me sad

I forgive you though

Have you been drinking on this very hot day?