Rhyce Shaw....dud pickup?

[Puppy Eyes]

Shaw seems to have the sort of pace that we have been sreaming out for and is far more valuable than an injured Tadhg has been for the last two years. An excellent pickup whose only drawback I feel is sometimes running too far with the ball when a leading player upfield would have been the better option.

Sometimes when you run too far (and Leo used to do this) you put your leading half forwards out of position because they time their runs when you first start to stream out of the backline. Mind you I would rather streaming out of the backline at pace and occassionally running too far than a one paced slow moving alternative that we have adopted at times when we go back into our shells (ala second quarter v St Kilda).

True, Magoo, but in this there is surely space created behind the leading player for a second forward to run into or the leading forward to double back into. I guess it depends on the numbers.

No-one laughed harder than me when Lynch made Shaw look stupid that day. But Shaw is not the first enemy I have learned to love. Lockett, Williams, Schauble, Hall, Schwass......there are plenty in my fickle heart.

I think Rhys Shaw has been fantastic.

[AnnieH]

At first, I was a bit upset that we got a Shaw at all.

It now seems we got the "good" one.

Yes, I ordered fries with my words and ate heartily.

Wait until he's been a few years at the club ... I'll order those fries for you now Nolie.

[snajik]

I reckon that was far and away his worst game on Saturday night but I also suspect it was an aberration. He made some daft decisions and coughed it up too often but he has been excellent so far this year; top 5 b & f at this stage without a doubt.

I really do find these threads where a player is singled out for a bollocking exceptionally tiresome. It's a team sport after all. You ain't going to get all 22 having a standout game week in week out. If they take turns to shine and we still win then who cares?

By the way I thought his name was Rhys Shore or Rick Shaw or Reece Sure or sumthink. Never heard of Rhys Shaw.

[connolly]

Shaw seems to have the sort of pace that we have been sreaming out for and is far more valuable than an injured Tadhg has been for the last two years. An excellent pickup whose only drawback I feel is sometimes running too far with the ball when a leading player upfield would have been the better option.

Sometimes when you run too far (and Leo used to do this) you put your leading half forwards out of position because they time their runs when you first start to stream out of the backline. Mind you I would rather streaming out of the backline at pace and occassionally running too far than a one paced slow moving alternative that we have adopted at times when we go back into our shells (ala second quarter v St Kilda).

He has been very good but the one difference between him and Kennelly is that he doesn't straighten us up out of defence. He tends to run it away from the pressuring forward that comes at him. Same with Mattner who is also a great running back but who runs tangents so the ball coming out of defense is being kicked at some stange angles. Kennelly was a very very good player because he took a man on in front of him, usually beat him, ran it into the middle corridor and was able to straighten us up. Shaw runs away from forwards and either releases the ball as he comes to a blocking opponent in front of him (and sometimes clangers as against the Eagles as a result) or runs away from the opponent towards the flanks. As a consequence the ball is being delivered away and out of the middle corridor. Tadgh steered us out of defence into the central corridor whereas Shaw tends to be run wide to bypass on coming opponents. Good player but a Kennelly he aint.

[connolly]

Shaw seems to have the sort of pace that we have been sreaming out for and is far more valuable than an injured Tadhg has been for the last two years. An excellent pickup whose only drawback I feel is sometimes running too far with the ball when a leading player upfield would have been the better option.

Sometimes when you run too far (and Leo used to do this) you put your leading half forwards out of position because they time their runs when you first start to stream out of the backline. Mind you I would rather streaming out of the backline at pace and occassionally running too far than a one paced slow moving alternative that we have adopted at times when we go back into our shells (ala second quarter v St Kilda).

He has been very good but the one difference between him and Kennelly is that he doesn't straighten us up out of defence. He tends to run it away from the pressuring forward that comes at him. Same with Mattner who is also a great running back but who runs tangents so the ball coming out of defense is being kicked at some stange angles. Kennelly was a very very good player because he took a man on in front of him, usually beat him, run it into the middle channel and was able to straighten us up. Shaw runs away from forwards and either releases the ball as he comes to a blocking opponent in front of him (and sometimes clangers as against the Eagles as a result) or runs away from the opponent. As a consequence the ball is being delivered away and out of the middle channel. Tadgh steered us out of defence into the central corridor whereas Shaw tends to be run wide to bypass on coming opponents. Good player but a Kennelly he aint.

[BSA5]

He has been very good but the one difference between him and Kennelly is that he doesn't straighten us up out of defence. He tends to run it away from the pressuring forward that comes at him. Same with Mattner who is also a great running back but who runs tangents so the ball coming out of defense is being kicked at some stange angles. Kennelly was a very very good player because he took a man on in front of him, usually beat him, run it into the middle channel and was able to straighten us up. Shaw runs away from forwards and either releases the ball as he comes to a blocking opponent in front of him (and sometimes clangers as against the Eagles as a result) or runs away from the opponent. As a consequence the ball is being delivered away and out of the middle channel. Tadhg steered us out of defence into the central corridor whereas Shaw tends to be run wide to bypass on coming opponents. Good player but a Kennelly he aint.

While true (it's not uncommon to see him essentially switch the ball by running across the ground, and then running up the wing), he does still run it up the middle when appropriate. More often we see him either take off in the middle and send it wide, or just run up the wing, but to suggest that he never or rarely runs it up the corridor is a little harsh, I reckon.

[Swanner]

Wise words

Wise words connolly...perhaps there are other consquences to this but i think the main problem with the swans is not the mids or backs but the forwards (not our players, Hall etc) but how we move the ball forward.

Personally i think our forwards needs to set deeper and we need to go through the middle a lot more and kick deeper ... shaw simply has been great but if we could focus both him and Mattner on straigntening up then we would be even better. Leo, although he can stuff up, greatest strength was he ran straight ahead and busted up the play ... ditto tadgh...

[Melbournehammer]

He has been very good but the one difference between him and Kennelly is that he doesn't straighten us up out of defence. He tends to run it away from the pressuring forward that comes at him. Same with Mattner who is also a great running back but who runs tangents so the ball coming out of defense is being kicked at some stange angles. Kennelly was a very very good player because he took a man on in front of him, usually beat him, run it into the middle channel and was able to straighten us up. Shaw runs away from forwards and either releases the ball as he comes to a blocking opponent in front of him (and sometimes clangers as against the Eagles as a result) or runs away from the opponent. As a consequence the ball is being delivered away and out of the middle channel. Tadhg steered us out of defence into the central corridor whereas Shaw tends to be run wide to bypass on coming opponents. Good player but a Kennelly he aint.

I reckon that this is due to a number of factors. I reckon there are three:

1. apart from shaw we lack running defenders. Part of what was letting Kennelly down in the last couple of years was he would handball to a player in the midfield looking for the 1-2 but the opposition were sweating on his first handball a lot more. When both leo and tadgh were running out of defence there was a lot of heart in mouth moments but it was fast in the corridor risk-taking and the opposition was often unsure who to follow. When it was tadgh alone there was a lot more pressure on the receiver of the looping handpass.

2. The development in the last 5 years of the small but extremely quick forward pocket whose job it is to stop half bank flankers from running has tended to mean that most clubs aren't getting the same run and carry as in the past. I reckon the leo/tadgh problems started to emerge when (in particular) they started having collingwood forwards chase from behind a lot more

3. the absence of genuinely quick swans midfielders means its harder to get the ball into space. Fosdike, williams, crouch all could be quick across the lines meaning that the opposition had to follow these players opening up space. Our current midfield lacks pace and that brings more players into confined areas.

[giant]

Shaw takes risks when he brings the ball out of defence (which I presume are his instructions) - hence, he sometimes screws up. At this point in time, it's certainly been a price worth playing, particularly with an out of sorts Malceski.

[connolly]

While true (it's not uncommon to see him essentially switch the ball by running across the ground, and then running up the wing), he does still run it up the middle when appropriate. More often we see him either take off in the middle and send it wide, or just run up the wing, but to suggest that he never or rarely runs it up the corridor is a little harsh, I reckon.

He does, when he has a clear run, go up the guts but his main option under real pressure is to rely on his pace. He is a running quarterback who maybe has been worked out by opposing coaches. If you zone defense him by running at him from the 50 metre arc his instinctive response is to run it wide. He is probably too mature a footballer to change his habit so we really need someone to run with him or at him to take the handball and let him give and run. I reckon his teamates are just breaking when he gets the ball. Interestingly Malceski's best football was playing outside Kennelly as a wide receiver. Kennelly so often ran out of broken play with his exceptional step and Malceski followed him through. Maybe we should play Malceski as a deep midfielder who makes it his business to feed off Shaw.

[connolly]

Wise words connolly...perhaps there are other consquences to this but i think the main problem with the swans is not the mids or backs but the forwards (not our players, Hall etc) but how we move the ball forward.

Personally i think our forwards needs to set deeper and we need to go through the middle a lot more and kick deeper ... shaw simply has been great but if we could focus both him and Mattner on straigntening up then we would be even better. Leo, although he can stuff up, greatest strength was he ran straight ahead and busted up the play ... ditto Tadhg...

The holy grail of effective defense is to control the central corridor from the midfield back to the defensive 30 metre line. Central corridor control will push teams wide which:
1. forces attacking thrusts to the flanks and slows the attack; or
2. smothers the attack in a heavy defensive zone (the imbecilic melbourne media calls this a flood!) and
3. makes teams forced to attack from the flanks vulnerable to quick up the guts counter attacks as the rebound exposes the opposition strung out on the flanks.
The pussies are virtually unbeatable at the present time because of the central corridor control. Significantly Rhyced Lightning was constantly forced wide by them and his effectiveness was reduced. The loss of Kennelly has been critical because he could steer our attack out of defense. He was good enough to beat an opponent with his step and had the reflex, vision and quickness to weave a passage into the central corridor. This a rare skill. Leo Barry in his prime was good at it as well. Shaw is a runner not a stepper.

[ROK Lobster]

The loss of Kennelly has been critical because he could steer our attack out of defense. He was good enough to beat an opponent with his step and had the reflex, vision and quickness to weave a passage into the central corridor. This a rare skill.

Hope you were mindful to include that in your statement of claim, but don't know how you will be able to quantify it if you get an award for damages.

[connolly]

Hope you were mindful to include that in your statement of claim, but don't know how you will be able to quantify it if you get an award for damages.

Loss of opportunity???

[satchmopugdog]

Hope you were mindful to include that in your statement of claim, but don't know how you will be able to quantify it if you get an award for damages.

I was just going to say great analysis Connelly.


You have now sent me on a journey trying to remeber the great steppers. Kelly had a bit of a step...Schwass was good....does Robert Harvey count or was his a completely different skill.

[AnnieH]

... He was good enough to beat an opponent with his step and had the reflex, vision and quickness to weave a passage into the central corridor. This a rare skill. Leo Barry in his prime was good at it as well. Shaw is a runner not a stepper.

Yes, but Leo has the decision making skills of a junkie.


(Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha. I'll never tire of quoting that quote!!)