Swans Academy and player watch

[sharp9]

You might be right...I know that Tim Callan was asked not to nominate for the draft as G. Ablett was going F/S in the same year. Perhaps that was because you could only take one back in 2002 or whenever it was. Callan went F/S the following year.

[ugg]

It's gone through a few incarnations:


- The initial rule allowed the club to list the player immediately, bypassing the draft and not having to give up any draft picks.
- Revised in 97, to force clubs to use their second round selection. If there were 2 eligible F/S picks, then the club's third round pick would be used too.
- Revised in 01 to only allow a single selection at the cost of a third rounder.
- Revised in 03 to allow multiple selections again, first player was your third rounder, second player was your second rounder!
- Revised in 07 to incorporate the bidding system.

[Matt80]

It's gone through a few incarnations:


- The initial rule allowed the club to list the player immediately, bypassing the draft and not having to give up any draft picks.
- Revised in 97, to force clubs to use their second round selection. If there were 2 eligible F/S picks, then the club's third round pick would be used too.
- Revised in 01 to only allow a single selection at the cost of a third rounder.
- Revised in 03 to allow multiple selections again, first player was your third rounder, second player was your second rounder!
- Revised in 07 to incorporate the bidding system.

Can a club get a father/son or academy selection through the bidding system, then on trade that player immediately during the draft period to another club?

Hypothetically we secure Heeney as part of the Academy bidding process before the main trade period. Say we commit pick 20.
Can we then on trade Heeney straight away to St Kilda during the trade period for pick one if StKilda want him badly?

We could then use pick one to draft the best available key position player with a view to turning them into a defender/swingman.

I acknowledge that this sort of move, would impact the morale for the Academy.

Before you start you all start sending missiles at me I think the Swans should use their first round to get a pick of Heeney?s quality.

[Melbournehammer]

enough with the trades and drafts already.

let the club work that out and rejoice in whoever comes and commiserate with whoever goes.

[aardvark]

Hypothetically we secure Heeney as part of the Academy bidding process before the main trade period. Say we commit pick 20.Can we then on trade Heeney straight away to St Kilda during the trade period for pick one if StKilda want him badly? We could then use pick one to draft the best available key position player with a view to turning them into a defender/swingman..

That would really push Eddie over the edge, don't think it can happen though.

[ugg]

Can a club get a father/son or academy selection through the bidding system, then on trade that player immediately during the draft period to another club?

Hypothetically we secure Heeney as part of the Academy bidding process before the main trade period. Say we commit pick 20.
Can we then on trade Heeney straight away to St Kilda during the trade period for pick one if StKilda want him badly?

We could then use pick one to draft the best available key position player with a view to turning them into a defender/swingman.

I acknowledge that this sort of move, would impact the morale for the Academy.

Before you start you all start sending missiles at me I think the Swans should use their first round to get a pick of Heeney?s quality.

No because trade week happens before the draft.

[Matt80]

No because trade week happens before the draft.

Off course, but the father/son and academy bidding process occurs before trade week. You know what player you have from the father/son and academy bidding process before you enter trade week. Why can't you then use that player in negotiations if desired?

[Melbournehammer]

Meg's right, Eddie hasn't said, "get rid of the academies" he has said, "keep the academies but don't give priority access of players to the clubs running the academies".....

Which is ridiculous given the academies have been run for some years by the respective clubs.

For Eddies idea of equal access to be the case, the AFL would have to pay for, and run, the academies totally, under their own banner.

Since the academies have been in existence for some years now, with most of the funding and work done by the respective clubs, the AFL is somewhat bound to honour existing arrangements.

No doubt there will be some tinkering to access, which may or may not include f/s access, but I doubt it will overly impact on the academy clubs access to players in the short to medium term.

Look this has to be the ultimate position doesn't it ?

Either the northern clubs are fully funded by the AFL to run the academies, or the AFL steps in to takeover the running of the academies. At the end of the day the draft is the great "equalisation" measure of the competition and the compromises in the draft associated with the academies will detract from the comp until such a time that the compromise is removed.

I personally don't have a problem with this. If the academies work and are fully funded and the swans reserves includes players who are eligible for the draft in future years, well I'd cop that. If the ambition is to grow the talent pool then invest in the growth of the talent pool and ensure the fairness of the draft.

[Matt80]

If the AFL 100% takes over the running of the four Northern Academy's then no club will bother to be engaged in the academy's. The Swans would get their top ups from the local Sydney AFL completion because there would be no point having a look at AFL Academy players as they are a draft lottery. You may find a rookie sensation from the Sydney AFL competition like a Dane Rampe or Manly's Tyrone Armitage who is down to the last 13 in the Recruit.

I think the quality of the AFL Academy would be dragged down if the Swans Reserves or Giants Reserves refused to use the AFL academy's players as top ups. The reserves experience for these young players is invaluable.

[ugg]

Off course, but the father/son and academy bidding process occurs before trade week. You know what player you have from the father/son and academy bidding process before you enter trade week. Why can't you then use that player in negotiations if desired?

Because officially the player hasn't been drafted to our club yet. This isn't a futures market, you can't trade off something you don't have yet. Anyway I'm sure the AFLPA would frown upon this.

[Ludwig]

I know the point has been made by McGuire and Newbold that the AFL pay $250k toward each academy, but always fail to leave out where the remainder of the funding comes from. (Meg and others have posted those details herein).

The benefit gained by the AFL from these investments is in the general growth in the game, which should translate into a larger player pool for everyone, higher attendances and a bigger tv audience leading to a more lucrative tv deal. All of these things benefit all the clubs, not just the northern clubs.

The benefits to the individual clubs are relatively small by comparison, which is the occasional preferential access to local players. The money invested directly by the club and its sponsors represent an opportunity cost that could have otherwise been spent on scouting and other recruiting and player development programs.

Without the academies the Swans might well be able to 'hide' away more local talent, like Sam Naismith and Dane Rampe, as Eddie claims we are doing. The academies bring most of this above board.

Everyone is in favor of the academies, it is just that some want the Swans to spend a lot of money, time and effort on it without any benefit.

[Meg]

The benefit gained by the AFL from these investments is in the general growth in the game, which should translate into a larger player pool for everyone, higher attendances and a bigger tv audience leading to a more lucrative tv deal. All of these things benefit all the clubs, not just the northern clubs.

That is such a good point and one that fans in the southern states, where there is virtually only one football code, can't comprehend. When the Swans Academy wins the commitment of a Heeney or a Mills, who would otherwise almost certainly be playing one of the rugby codes, they spread interest and support for AFL to their families, relatives, friends, neighbours, schools etc. No small thing in NSW and Qld.

[Meg]

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the father son rule altered maybe 10 years ago. Prior to the change you were only allowed one FS pick, but then COLLINGWOOD had 2 sons of guns in the same year - Fat Eddie kicked up a stink and the rule was changed....?

I can't recall the exact circumstances, but it was something like that.

I suspect you are right. According to (the impeccable source) Wikipedia:

"In 2003 the rules were changed again to allow multiple players to be drafted in a single year, with a third round selection used for the first player and a second round selection being used for the second player. Collingwood drafted cousins Brayden and Heath Shaw using their second and third round selection in 2003."

[Reggi]

Four Swans academy players off to draft combine. Heeney, Davis, Hiscox and Roos

Need to nominate who we intend to draft on Friday

[The Big Cat]

Four Swans academy players off to draft combine. Heeney, Davis, Hiscox and Roos

Need to nominate who we intend to draft on Friday

Is Roos still an academy player?