Craig Bird fallen from the nest ?

[Velour&Ruffles]

Yes I do think Kirk has demonstrated (vastly) more football skills than Craig Bird has to date.

100% correct.
"Skills" are not just the flashy things.
To date, Bird is not even close to Kirk in terms of ball extraction, handball, tackling, general defensive work (blocking, zoning etc) gut running or onfield leadership. I'd say they are about line ball for kicking and Bird has a few evasive trinks that Kirky never had.

Puts even the 2010 model Kirk well ahead of Bird for the moment. But I hope Bird catches up and I think he has the attributes to do it.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I'm sort of "over" Bird, that's not to say I don't think he can be an important part of our squad but my interest has seriously waned due to his injuries and his underwhelming attributes as a player.

If he's to be a serious weapon for the Swans he needs to become a Sam Mitchell type imo, not flashy with great speed but a genuine extractor and someone who can dish it off to the likes of Jack, Hannebery or Jetta time and time again over the course of a season.

[BSA5]

I'm sort of "over" Bird, that's not to say I don't think he can be an important part of our squad but my interest has seriously waned due to his injuries and his underwhelming attributes as a player.

If he's to be a serious weapon for the Swans he needs to become a Sam Mitchell type imo, not flashy with great speed but a genuine extractor and someone who can dish it off to the likes of Jack, Hannebery or Jetta time and time again over the course of a season.

This, though I think the underwhelming attributes are overstated. He isn't quick, but neither is he a snail. He's probably as quick as Bartel, and quicker than Kennedy. He's stocky and strong, yet with a fantastic ability to find space, a rare and exciting combination.

He'll make for a very good inside player, and with Kirk hanging up the boots and Jude probably looking at spending some more time on the HFF in his later years, he'll hopefully be able to step into the midfield rotation on a full-time basis in the very near future. The senior football he has played to date has generally been in the pocket, off a forward flank or on the wing, with the odd 5-minute burst in the middle, simply because we've had Kirk, Jude and ROK as the mainstays. This role obviously doesn't suit him well, but even so he has acquitted himself reasonably, and has always been noticeable when he gets a chance in the guts.

His kicking isn't always the best, but I feel this is psychological, rather than technical. He has shown on a number of occasions, when kicking for goal, setting up play under pressure, etc, that he's very capable of hitting a target, but when he's got too much time, he sometimes dabs at the ball and the passes fall short. He also sometimes struggles when off balance, but many do. I'm hoping it's nothing a bit of training and experience can't fix.

[Legs Akimbo]

Bird is injured. Stress fractures in the foot are a serious injury for a footballer. Staggers me how some conflate injury with being useless.

[top40]

Liz and Goswannie14, your little debate reminds me of scene from an old Woody Allen movie, "Annie Hall" where in a flashback scene Woody's parents are aggressively arguing over which is the bigger ocean, the Atlantic or the Pacific.

Guys, the reality is that Brett Kirk was a champion in anyone's terms, but he lacked natural football skills, (making him even more demonstrative a champion). The reality also is that Craig Ball does have natural skills but remains a long way from being a champion.

Glad to sort that one out. And the answer above is the Pacific.

[Kirkari]

"One of the great myths is Brett is a battler made good. Brett Kirk is a champion who battled for recognition in the early part of his career." - Richard Colless, 2010 Club Champions Dinner.

Still battling apparently. Birdy can clean Kirky's boots for a few more years yet.

[Big Al]

I think it IS a myth that Kirk lacks football skills. I can't remember on too many occasions where he missed a target by hand or foot. He wasn't overly quick but he could read a game like no other player so had that knack of being in the right place at the right time. To me that's football skill which is more valuable than someone who can kick 60metres but can't read the game.

[Primmy]

What he said. Also Kirky could not only read the game, he could read his players as well as direct traffic. He wound this back in 2010 and Macca took over traffic cop duties from the master.

[magic.merkin]

Yes I do think Kirk has demonstrated (vastly) more football skills than Craig Bird has to date.

I also think that editing the post I quoted, both in your original and in the quote in my post, to completely change the nuance of what I was responding to is sneaky at best.

Sneaky, no, stating what I actually meant, yes.

Poor form.

[reigning premier]

"One of the great myths is Brett is a battler made good. Brett Kirk is a champion who battled for recognition in the early part of his career." - Richard Colless, 2010 Club Champions Dinner.

Still battling apparently. Birdy can clean Kirky's boots for a few more years yet.

It's not like he's going to call him a hack at his final B&F dinner now is it.....

[aardvark]

If Craig Bird eventually gets fit and becomes half the contributer Kirky was it will be a win for the club. Players who suffer from stress fractures never amount to much. They have to push their bodies too hard to get the job done.

[goswannie14]

Poor form.

Are you serious? It's poor form to actually correct a mistake you make in a post????

[magic.merkin]

Are you serious? It's poor form to actually correct a mistake you make in a post????

Nope, it's poor form to edit others posts when not for rule related reasons but personal ones. Especially when their reply to your original statement is left intact. It's poor form, and unfair on the poster.

Anyway back on to your actual point, and I reckon your wrong on that as well

[goswannie14]

Nope, it's poor form to edit others posts when not for rule related reasons but personal ones. Especially when their reply to your original statement is left intact. It's poor form, and unfair on the poster.

Anyway back on to your actual point, and I reckon your wrong on that as well

You may have noticed that when a post quotes a post that is edited, that quote is always edited as well. That's what happened. It wasn't for personal reasons but it was to correct what I realised after Liz quoted me that I had left a word out. That word was placed (as it should have been) in both the OP and the quote of the OP.

[Triple B]

You may have noticed that when a post quotes a post that is edited, that quote is always edited as well. That's what happened. ....

Is that why "Last edited by goswannie14; Yesterday at 01:02 PM. " appears under Liz's post???

I'd be quitting now.