trade requirments

[NMWBloods]

So you can "just reckon" someone is playing well but you can't "just reckon" someone is not playing great?!?! What's the difference? Both are opinions!!

I asked you if Saddo was a great defender - I don't think he is. I never said he hasn't played good football, I simply said he hasn't played great football and hasn't played good defensive football regularly. I also said I don't think he's played as well as either Bolton or Schauble in the key positions in the back line.

[Reggi]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I also said I don't think he's played as well as either Bolton or Schauble in the key positions in the back line.

Now I know you're speaking crap.

To Bolton's credit he had a go - and was generally out-gunned - but to say he has been better than Saddington is absolute bull****.

No I think the overwhelming majority of good defenders in the AFL do not reach that standard until they are 25 or so - Saddington is only 23.

He is better now than Mal Michael, Wellman either Wakelin, Leppitsch who is a failed forward - Schauble - Dunkley - Prestiagiamcomo etc etc at the same age.

On the whole defenders are always better later in their career - past 25 - when they do get smarter and stronger - Saddington started playing football at around 71KGs.

Just getting way bored with all this unsubstantiated crap being spouted about Saddington

[Jimmy C]

My two cents;

Saddo is a good player who didn't have a great year. A whole bunch of web space could be devoted to what has caused this to eventuate. In my opinion, he will never be a true CHB. Much better on the flanks, which is exactly where he wasn't this year. His apparent lack of physical development hasn't helped him much either.

I imagine that the club has spent too much money on his development to simply trade him and let some other Mutts get the benefits of all that work.

But what do I know? I don't work for the club in any capacity (like pretty well everyone here) and wouldn't be naive enough to delude myself into thinking that I somehow have my finger on the pulse of SFC.

FWIW, I'd trade Fosdike before Saddo in an instant, but again, what do I know? Lot's of posters here thought that Goodes was tradeable last season (not me though).

[Craig]

Originally posted by Reggi
Now I know you're speaking crap.

To Bolton's credit he had a go - and was generally out-gunned - but to say he has been better than Saddington is absolute bull****.

You can't be serious. Comments like this prove you know @@@@ all about footy.

Bolton was excellent this year and rarely "out - gunned". I would like you to list the players that "out-gunned" him.

He had a much better year then Saddington (obviously Saddington was injuured for a lot of the year). As a key defender Bolton is able to handle bigger forwards better even though he is shorter and weighs less.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Reggi
Now I know you're speaking crap.

To Bolton's credit he had a go - and was generally out-gunned - but to say he has been better than Saddington is absolute bull****.

Outgunned by whom? Bolton efforts at a key defensive position have been better than Saddo's. Why did Roos put Bolton on Neitz rather than using Saddington?

As far as comparisons to other players, I think you've made a few mistakes there.

Michael was 23 when he went to Brisbane - he was good from his first year there, and wasn't really that bad at Collingwood either.

Schauble won our B&F when he was 23!!

Leppitsch was hardly a "failed" forward, he did very well in '97 but struggled with injury and suspension in '98. He went to full back permanently in '99, when he was 23, and finished equal first in the Lions' B&F and was All-Australian FB in his first year in that position!!

Prestigiacomo is only 21 months older than Saddo, yet he's been holding down a key defensive role for that long at least.

Pavlich managed to make FB his own and get AA selection at 21!!

You also seem to have forgotten Scarlett, who is only 24, went close to AA selection when he was 23, and was runner up in their B&F when he was 22.

I've never said Saddo is crap, just that he's only an okay defender, with a lot of work to do if he wants to become a key position defender, particularly at CHB. Apologists citing age as the only reason are off the mark IMHO.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Jimmy C
My two cents;

Saddo is a good player who didn't have a great year. A whole bunch of web space could be devoted to what has caused this to eventuate. In my opinion, he will never be a true CHB. Much better on the flanks, which is exactly where he wasn't this year. His apparent lack of physical development hasn't helped him much either.

I imagine that the club has spent too much money on his development to simply trade him and let some other Mutts get the benefits of all that work.

Yep, I'd pretty much agree with all of this.

But what do I know? I don't work for the club in any capacity (like pretty well everyone here) and wouldn't be naive enough to delude myself into thinking that I somehow have my finger on the pulse of SFC.

I don't think anyone here is that deluded (or at least I hope not). Just simply having a view like everyone has a view on nearly everything.

[Reggi]

Originally posted by Craig
You can't be serious. Comments like this prove you know @@@@ all about footy.

Bolton was excellent this year and rarely "out - gunned". I would like you to list the players that "out-gunned" him.

He had a much better year then Saddington (obviously Saddington was injuured for a lot of the year). As a key defender Bolton is able to handle bigger forwards better even though he is shorter and weighs less.

This is bull**** - whilst I admired Bolton - he is a player being lauded because of diminished expectations, whilst Saddo is burdened with over expectations.

In the Prelim final J Brown ended up with some of his best stats for the year 9 marks 17 possessions and 2 goals. His 'player ranking' was the highest of any Brisbane player on the ground, ie statistically he was their best player.

and Bolton's opponent.

In the first final he was Lade's opponent - until he was replaced by S Stevens - who actually was better on him. Up to that time Lade had kicked 4 goals - most whilst Bolton's opponent. Again statistically he was easily the best player on the ground - probably his only decent game for the year.

So I gotta seriously question your judgement.

And again it basically all this "I just reckon" rubbish with no-one coming out with any logic, reasoning or sense to justify what are pretty thoughtless opinions.

[NMWBloods]

So you've managed to base your assessment on two games. Of course Lade killed him - he would have done likewise to Saddo or most people we would have put on him as he's much bigger.

As for Brown, he's probably had ten games of similar efforts this year. Given the ball was inside Brisbane's 50 for most of the last quarter it's hardly surprising Brown ended up with good stats. It shows the difficulty our defence has if the midfield struggles. Anyway, yep Bolton was beaten that day, but what about Bolton's other good efforts? What about Saddo's failures as well?

Players get beaten by top forwards sometimes - Hall beat Michael in that game too and also in the other games we played Brisbane. Bolton showed this year however, on a number of occasions that he could also beat top forwards. Saddo hasn't yet IMHO.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Reggi
This is bull**** - whilst I admired Bolton - he is a player being lauded because of diminished expectations, whilst Saddo is burdened with over expectations.

In the Prelim final J Brown ended up with some of his best stats for the year 9 marks 17 possessions and 2 goals. His 'player ranking' was the highest of any Brisbane player on the ground, ie statistically he was their best player.

and Bolton's opponent.

In the first final he was Lade's opponent - until he was replaced by S Stevens - who actually was better on him. Up to that time Lade had kicked 4 goals - most whilst Bolton's opponent. Again statistically he was easily the best player on the ground - probably his only decent game for the year.

So I gotta seriously question your judgement.

And again it basically all this "I just reckon" rubbish with no-one coming out with any logic, reasoning or sense to justify what are pretty thoughtless opinions.

So basically two players beat him all year. Must be a failure then! If that's not an unjustified opinion then I don't know what is.

Both those you mentioned are at least 15kg heavier then Bolton, what a disgrace it was to be beaten by them! Bolton was never regarded as a KPP, he had to take this role because Saddington wasn't up to it.

[Reggi]

No I took just two examples to show what a stupid statement you had made.

Can pick others, but as I am pointing out - there are plenty who are willing to take pot-shots at Saddo without backing those statements up.

Perfectly happy to back mine up.

[Reggi]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

Players get beaten by top forwards sometimes - Hall beat Michael in that game too and also in the other games we played Brisbane. Bolton showed this year however, on a number of occasions that he could also beat top forwards. Saddo hasn't yet IMHO.

You are speaking utter utter crap - and just making it up.

2001 and 2002 Saddington has been the mainstay of Sydney's defence as over that time generally either Schauble or Dunkley had injury problems - in fact Eade had played Schauble in the forward line leaving Saddington at CHB - generally uou would say because Saddington was doing so well back there.

If you have a fact, idea, accurate statement or anything that generally looks or sounds like the truth on this please put it forward.

[NMWBloods]

Schauble was played in the forward line as our forwards were struggling to kick goals.

Saddo has simply not established himself as a great CHB. Interesting that Steve's argument was that Saddington had not had experience there, but now you are saying he has had. Interesting too that other teams and supporters do not recognise Saddington as a top-flight defender. He's okay, but not great. Why do you think Roos put Bolton on Neitz and not Saddington?

I'd best stop debating with you now, as you are becoming over-emotional and abusive, the refuge of those lacking substance, arguments and thought processes.

[Craig]

Originally posted by NMWBloods


I'd best stop debating with you now, as you are becoming over-emotional and abusive, the refuge of those lacking substance, arguments and thought processes.

Spot on there.

[Steve]

Saddington has played on key forward in the past and done well. Particularly in 2001 when he played on Hamill, Chris Grant and John Barker (the year he kicked 47), holding each of them to 1 goal.

From memory that was the year he played on Kouta for a while to give Dunks a break and he did very well.

So the argument that he's never played well at CHB, or against quality opponents, isn't right.

When I was talking about experience playing at CHB I wasn't meaning maybe half a dozen games in one year. All the names that have been thrown up - Michael, Scarlett, Fletcher, Gaspar, Leppitsch, Schauble, Pavlich, you could even add Croad - are examples of guys that were put in that position without great experience playing on key forwards, but all found their own way of doing it successfully. The better ones have sustained it for longer - that's where the experience really kicks in.

I don't mind people criticising players as such, but IMO it is very unfair to critise Saddington for not being up to playing a position that he's never been given an extended opportunity to play in.

I notice a few back-out clauses coming out late in this thread, eg. "with a lot of work to do", "has simply not established himself as a great CHB" (who had done that in the history of the game by 23?), "other ... supporters do not recognise Saddington as a top-flight defender" etc.

I think I've tried to strenuously argue why Saddington will be a very good CHB - the response has been a few half-hearted queries over whether he has already proven beyond doubt that he's a great CHB.

I can see the responses if/when Saddington is named AA CHB - "all I/we did was query how good he had been", "yeah he improved which was what I/we said he had to, so I'm pleased he proved me right" etc etc.

I'd prefer critics made an authoritative statement now along the lines of "he will never be a key defender".

[Reggi]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Schauble was played in the forward line as our forwards were struggling to kick goals.

Saddo has simply not established himself as a great CHB. Interesting that Steve's argument was that Saddington had not had experience there, but now you are saying he has had. Interesting too that other teams and supporters do not recognise Saddington as a top-flight defender. He's okay, but not great. Why do you think Roos put Bolton on Neitz and not Saddington?

I'd best stop debating with you now, as you are becoming over-emotional and abusive, the refuge of those lacking substance, arguments and thought processes.

Interesting that you believe that over the internet you can read my state of mind. Frank and direct yep - abusive - no - all my comments have been on the commentary in this thread.

I can only gather from this that you are unwilling to back - up what were statements that thus far have not been supported by anything but opinion.

Steve - couldn't agree more