Changes for Round 5 versus Fremantle

[Swanny40519]

In : Tippett, Bird, Towers

Out : Derickx, Shaw, Mitchell

[crackedactor]

Dont think O'Keefe should be dropped. He'll come good.

Would have thought he'd have the benefit of 3-4 bad games before the axe. Really only want to get rid of him if the season does go down the chute, which it hasnt yet.

The Shaw HTB in the 4th QTR brought back memories of the 2003 GF. He seems totally bereft of confidence.

Surprised that people think ROK will come good. I am not sure his mind is on the game 100% at the moment. I am also surprised that Grundy has not been mentioned more. The amount of goals he gave away via errors was unbelieveable. I would like to see dropped :Shaw, Grundy, ROK and derrick. In Tippett, Biggs, Towers and Bird. But the buddy affect is still destroying our club. I hope this changes this week and when he has 3 to 4 players surrounding him that at least one Swans player comes in and helps out.

But I have not seen this in 4 weeks, so I assume it will continue.

[rojo]

Heard Phil Davis being interviewed on radio the other day (GWS, out for the season with liver damage). He reckoned that you have to double the time any player is out injured to know when to expect him to be back to his best. If he is right then Shaw, LT, Mitchell, not even thinking about Rohan, then KT and Goodes and Reid will not be playing their best for a while yet. The question is, should they be getting back to their best in the firsts or the reserves? The fact that they are in the firsts would suggest that there is no one in the reserves at the moment who would do a better job!

For me if it was a choice between ROK and Bird right now I would select Birdie. If Biggs continues to shine in the next couple of weeks and Shaw is still playing poorly I would put Biggs in instead of Shaw. LRT should survive at least until Reid and Goodes are back but they will all be in the same lack-of-match-practice situation.

Players in the reserves have got to be standing out and among the best players consistently to force the hand of the selectors. Apart from Biggs, Lloyd seems to have really earned a game in the firsts but there is no 'hole' in the mids for him.

[mcs]

Heard Phil Davis being interviewed on radio the other day (GWS, out for the season with liver damage). He reckoned that you have to double the time any player is out injured to know when to expect him to be back to his best. If he is right then Shaw, LT, Mitchell, not even thinking about Rohan, then KT and Goodes and Reid will not be playing their best for a while yet. The question is, should they be getting back to their best in the firsts or the reserves? The fact that they are in the firsts would suggest that there is no one in the reserves at the moment who would do a better job!

For me if it was a choice between ROK and Bird right now I would select Birdie. If Biggs continues to shine in the next couple of weeks and Shaw is still playing poorly I would put Biggs in instead of Shaw. LRT should survive at least until Reid and Goodes are back but they will all be in the same lack-of-match-practice situation.

Players in the reserves have got to be standing out and among the best players consistently to force the hand of the selectors. Apart from Biggs, Lloyd seems to have really earned a game in the firsts but there is no 'hole' in the mids for him.

I'd argue there should be plenty of 'holes' in the mid for Lloyd to potentially fill, as the midfield group as a whole is the root of our current problems. Where has the trademark hardness and ferocious attack on the ball gone? The whole group should be put on notice - lift your act or face getting a week or two in the Magoos!

[ernie koala]

I'd keep O'Keefe but play him as a forward, like the ol' 05 days.
Thoughts?

He's being playing a bit up forward this season, certainly resting there....You may not of noticed because he's pretty much been unsighted.

[Ludwig]

As a fellow cycling enthusiast, ROK has always been one of my favourites. I would love to see him reach the 300 game mark. I thought his renowned fitness would get him through this year in good shape. But as it seems to happen so often, players of his age just drop off to an extent that they just can't keep up with the pace of the game. He can't apply forward pressure, because any player can easily run off him, so he becomes a big liability. He even seems to have curbed his attack on the ball, because his reaction time has slowed so much that he finds it difficult not giving away frees in contested situations (tends to inadvertently hit the head).

In the NM pregame thread I commented that Ben Cunnington would be a good matchup for Ryan, because Ben was a dangerous contested player, could go forward and kick goals, similar to Ryan. And Ben is also pretty slow, so thought Ryan could hang on to him, and hopefully negate his influence, especially in the wet. For some reason, Horse, in his infinite wisdom, didn't see this as a good matchup and Cunnington had a second to Scott Thomson BOG performance.

So where does Ryan go from here? I can't think of any player offhand, having lost the ability to keep up with the pace of the game because of age, regaining the pace in the course of time. Once the slide starts it usually continues without reversal. Ryan is a hard trainer, is still very fit, and is not coming off injury. It's more than just a form slump that is keeping him from being the Ryan of old. Sadly, this seems to be the reality of the situation.

I don't know if Ryan will be one of the players that Horse will 'keep the faith' with, or will return to his round one assessment that Ryan was just a bit too slow for the game plan. Horse always seems reluctant to make changes. I've never been too thrilled with Longmire's approach to player development. I prefer the Geelong and Hawthorn models where young players are gradually exposed to senior footy, instead of waiting for injury to force your hand.

[Matt80]

As a fellow cycling enthusiast, ROK has always been one of my favourites. I would love to see him reach the 300 game mark. I thought his renowned fitness would get him through this year in good shape. But as it seems to happen so often, players of his age just drop off to an extent that they just can't keep up with the pace of the game. He can't apply forward pressure, because any player can easily run off him, so he becomes a big liability. He even seems to have curbed his attack on the ball, because his reaction time has slowed so much that he finds it difficult not giving away frees in contested situations (tends to inadvertently hit the head).

In the NM pregame thread I commented that Ben Cunnington would be a good matchup for Ryan, because Ben was a dangerous contested player, could go forward and kick goals, similar to Ryan. And Ben is also pretty slow, so thought Ryan could hang on to him, and hopefully negate his influence, especially in the wet. For some reason, Horse, in his infinite wisdom, didn't see this as a good matchup and Cunnington had a second to Scott Thomson BOG performance.

So where does Ryan go from here? I can't think of any player offhand, having lost the ability to keep up with the pace of the game because of age, regaining the pace in the course of time. Once the slide starts it usually continues without reversal. Ryan is a hard trainer, is still very fit, and is not coming off injury. It's more than just a form slump that is keeping him from being the Ryan of old. Sadly, this seems to be the reality of the situation.

I don't know if Ryan will be one of the players that Horse will 'keep the faith' with, or will return to his round one assessment that Ryan was just a bit too slow for the game plan. Horse always seems reluctant to make changes. I've never been too thrilled with Longmire's approach to player development. I prefer the Geelong and Hawthorn models where young players are gradually exposed to senior footy, instead of waiting for injury to force your hand.

I like ROK, but things are tough for him. My opinion on ROK is that he can no longer survive in the open. Up forward he does not have the pace to beat his opponent on the lead, and he struggles to apply pressure. He still can produce good moments, and could have quite easily kicked three goals in the last quarter, instead of the one. He dropped a chest mark from 20m out and almost kicked a long goal on the siren.

If you put him in an inside midfield role, then he has a role to play. Maybe Kennedy could swap with ROK and spend time forward, but that would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I think Bird should come in Mitchell, Towers for ROK, Tippett (if fit) for Tom D, and Brandon Jack as Sub for Shaw. Liadler, Rampe and Mal can cover Shaw.

[wolftone57]

Heard Phil Davis being interviewed on radio the other day (GWS, out for the season with liver damage). He reckoned that you have to double the time any player is out injured to know when to expect him to be back to his best. If he is right then Shaw, LT, Mitchell, not even thinking about Rohan, then KT and Goodes and Reid will not be playing their best for a while yet. The question is, should they be getting back to their best in the firsts or the reserves? The fact that they are in the firsts would suggest that there is no one in the reserves at the moment who would do a better job!

For me if it was a choice between ROK and Bird right now I would select Birdie. If Biggs continues to shine in the next couple of weeks and Shaw is still playing poorly I would put Biggs in instead of Shaw. LRT should survive at least until Reid and Goodes are back but they will all be in the same lack-of-match-practice situation.

Players in the reserves have got to be standing out and among the best players consistently to force the hand of the selectors. Apart from Biggs, Lloyd seems to have really earned a game in the firsts but there is no 'hole' in the mids for him.

We don't have 2 weeks Biggs in now for Shaw. If we lose this week I would say we can kiss the season goodbye. We have a really hard draw this year due to the equalisation policy. We have to start winning and soon or we are cactus.

The Draw & at this stage the probable outcome ;

Freo (H) (L)

Melb (Gee) (W)

Lions (A) (W)

Hawks (ANZ) (L)

Dons (Et) (L)

Cats (H) (L)

CGS (A) (L/W)

Port (H) (W/L)

Tiges (Gee) (W)

GWS (H) (W)

Eagles (A) (L)

Blues (H) (W)

Hawks (Gee) (L)

Dons (H) (L)

Port (A) (L)

Saints (H) (W)

Bullies (Et) (W)

Tiges (ANZ) (W)


That is eight we should win. Two in doubt and eight losses. That is on current form. Of course this could change depending on available personnel, change of coaching methods, change of personnel due to form, stoppages getting better, ruck getting better, forward structure. We need to start winning soon and it is not just the minnows we need to beat. We need a big scalp to bring back the confidence.

- - - Updated - - -

Dont think O'Keefe should be dropped. He'll come good.

Would have thought he'd have the benefit of 3-4 bad games before the axe. Really only want to get rid of him if the season does go down the chute, which it hasnt yet.

The Shaw HTB in the 4th QTR brought back memories of the 2003 GF. He seems totally bereft of confidence.

How long do we have to wait for ROK to come good? Half the team is in the same boat and we have to stop the rot. We can't afford to carry anyone. We need changes and we need them now.

[GordonS]

Ins and Outs:

Tippett (if he's fit, no point wasting time in reserves with 1-3 start) to replace Derickx. Obvious replacement since Derickx has been playing the Tippett role.

Membrey for ROK. ROK has been playing most of his time in the forward line, so throw membrey in there who has a good mark and is a decent set shot (i dont think towers is the right man for the job here, and i also dont see who else could play the required forward role other than rohan). With membrey in the forward line, throw LRT into the backline to help out that idiot grundy. this will free up mcveigh to go back to the midfield where he needs to be right now to impose himself more on the game and drive his team.

Bird for Mitchell. Need to give tom a rest in the reserves to get his form up a bit. Bird deserves to come back in and is an obvious replacement

I also doubt Rohan will appear in the subs vest again this week. Its rare that a player plays 3 weeks in a row as the sub. Whether he starts in the seniors or goes to reserves remains to be seen. If seniors, then put him forward and have membrey as the sub.

[wolftone57]

Ins and Outs:

Tippett (if he's fit, no point wasting time in reserves with 1-3 start) to replace Derickx. Obvious replacement since Derickx has been playing the Tippett role.

Membrey for ROK. ROK has been playing most of his time in the forward line, so throw membrey in there who has a good mark and is a decent set shot (i dont think towers is the right man for the job here, and i also dont see who else could play the required forward role other than rohan). With membrey in the forward line, throw LRT into the backline to help out that idiot grundy. this will free up mcveigh to go back to the midfield where he needs to be right now to impose himself more on the game and drive his team.

Bird for Mitchell. Need to give tom a rest in the reserves to get his form up a bit. Bird deserves to come back in and is an obvious replacement

I also doubt Rohan will appear in the subs vest again this week. Its rare that a player plays 3 weeks in a row as the sub. Whether he starts in the seniors or goes to reserves remains to be seen. If seniors, then put him forward and have membrey as the sub.

If we bring Membrey in we have to bring him in, not as sub as that changes nothing. I am really worried about the pressure on our backline this week. We fell to pieces last year under this pressure. Shaw would be a huge liability under huge pressure but I think Biggs was one of the few players to play ok in the Freo final.

[bodgie]

I really can't see Tippet coming straight back in and being a ruck for anymore than some relief work in the forward line. Maybe with some more match time.

[jono2707]

I really can't see Tippet coming straight back in and being a ruck for anymore than some relief work in the forward line. Maybe with some more match time.

Agreed - if Tippett comes in we need to keep him forward. It's critical for our structure. Drop Derickx and use LRT as ruck relief. Mitchell would be a decent sub this week if he's deemed fit enough. Gazza to get a full run to try to get some more touch back. Agreed ROK and Shaw are on shaky ground but I don't see both being dropped at once - maybe one of them this week....

[wolftone57]

Agreed - if Tippett comes in we need to keep him forward. It's critical for our structure. Drop Derickx and use LRT as ruck relief. Mitchell would be a decent sub this week if he's deemed fit enough. Gazza to get a full run to try to get some more touch back. Agreed ROK and Shaw are on shaky ground but I don't see both being dropped at once - maybe one of them this week....

I see you are just rearranging deckchairs o the Titanic Jono. LRT has a crap record in ruck and this year is even worse than previously. He is not a ruckman, even a relief ruck and he has lost a yard so this makes it hard for him to keep up with the young bucks. GWS boys, including Mummy gave him a hiding and he managed only 2 HO & 5 disposals. He is finished if he doesn't play back. Biggs needs to come in as Shaw panics under pressure and sprays the ball all over the shop. Let's give a few players who are in form a go.

[GordonS]

If we bring Membrey in we have to bring him in, not as sub as that changes nothing. I am really worried about the pressure on our backline this week. We fell to pieces last year under this pressure. Shaw would be a huge liability under huge pressure but I think Biggs was one of the few players to play ok in the Freo final.

i'd definitely like to see membrey get a full game (maybe mitchell to sub as jono said). i also like the idea of biggs coming back in. gotta give the young guys a run to replace the inevitable retirees. just cant see too many changes happening this week, knowing longmire and his men

[jono2707]

I see you are just rearranging deckchairs o the Titanic Jono. LRT has a crap record in ruck and this year is even worse than previously. He is not a ruckman, even a relief ruck and he has lost a yard so this makes it hard for him to keep up with the young bucks. GWS boys, including Mummy gave him a hiding and he managed only 2 HO & 5 disposals. He is finished if he doesn't play back. Biggs needs to come in as Shaw panics under pressure and sprays the ball all over the shop. Let's give a few players who are in form a go.

After 4 games I hardly think we are looking at the Titanic here. We still have the players, we just need to turn things around. We are still placed ok in premiership betting, if any credence can be given to betting odds. I certainly hope the players haven't given up on the year at this early stage.

I see it as a choice between Derickx and LRT for second ruck. We should not be putting Tippett in there - if he's fit, he plays, and if he plays, he should play forward only.