List changes and trade bait

[Conor_Dillon]

1. Sydney Swans: The Premiership Years.

I hope this is a 6 or 7 part movie

[RogueSwan]

The difference is Laidler was brought in with a specific role in mind....Mattners role. ..

I think Rampe is playing the Super Marty role and playing it well. Tenacious mid sized defender with a great left foot.
IMO Laidler is playing AJ's position as third tall defender.

[Nico]

Luddy you are on fire lately, especially the pictures!

I suspect he has a bit of time on his hands.

[Conor_Dillon]

Hearing straight swap.

Reid for Leuenberger.

May or may not be from Big Footy.

Let's pretend there's substance to it and discuss...

Would we do it?

I'll start by saying yes.

[annew]

Hearing straight swap.

Reid for Leuenberger.

May or may not be from Big Footy.

Let's pretend there's substance to it and discuss...

Would we do it?

I'll start by saying yes.

I'll say no

[Conor_Dillon]

I'll say no

1 each!

[RogueSwan]

Hearing straight swap.

Reid for Leuenberger.

No way. Leuenberger offers us nothing that we don't already have.
Every team would love to have a 'utility' as good as Reid.

[Steve]

You'd be crazy to trade Reid when next year all of our other KPP will be 28+, if not immediately you would regret it a couple of years down the track.

It would be negligent if we weren't looking at a ruckman though. Pyke will be 31 before the start of next season, and Naismith & Nankervis are a number of years off being quality AFL ruckmen (assuming they keep developing). Leuenberger, Minson, Bellchambers etc might be attainable if Malceski et al were squeezed out. Otherwise we just go back to our old plan of poaching one who is 23-25 who another club has put the development into but is stuck behind an established ruckman at their club (eg. a Luke Lowden from Hawthorn).

If we are ruthless about winning flags in the next 2-3 years we really have to look at that position, as it's our main weakness and certainly biggest risk.

[liz]

The production of ruckmen is such an unpredictable craft. Having a competent one is so important and they generally take a while to turn from apparent spud to quality. They also tend to be quite injury prone so a contender needs a couple of spares on their list, spares who accept they will play a fair bit of reserves footy, especially with clubs loathe to give regular senior time to two genuine lumberers at the same time.

The Hawks seem to have been perennially on the look-out to find a good ruckman, especially with Bailey's premature retirement. They gave up a reasonable amount at the trade table for McEvoy, and all of a sudden they are a little over-endowed in that department with things clicking for Ceglar and Lowden looking like he might be ready.

We might well find ourselves looking for competent stop gaps for a while and then all of a sudden, in a couple of years, find Nankervis and Naismith emerge together as definite senior ruckmen. Or we may not.

I remember Michael Gardiner going down with a season ending knee injury while playing for West Coast in 2004 (I think - it might have been a year earlier). West Coast were considered to be firmly in their window of opportunity back then - as played out over the next couple of seasons - but the loss of one of the prime ruckmen was thought to be a devastating blow to their chances. All they had in reserves was a mediocre and relatively unknown ruckman they had plucked from somewhere in WA and tucked away on their rookie list for a couple of seasons. His name was Dean Cox. Within barely a season he had established himself as a top line ruckman and when Gardiner returned from his knee injury, he found his spot in the team was no longer his.

[The Big Cat]

The production of ruckmen is such an unpredictable craft. Having a competent one is so important and they generally take a while to turn from apparent spud to quality.

Never a truer word spoken Liz. I remember seeing a young Greg Stafford and wondered why they were persisting with him on our list. Then all of a sudden his career took off, he displaced the incumbent (Gavin Rose, I think it was) and he became one of the most skilful and influential big men in the game until injury cut him down.

[liz]

Never a truer word spoken Liz. I remember seeing a young Greg Stafford and wondered why they were persisting with him on our list. Then all of a sudden his career took off, he displaced the incumbent (Gavin Rose, I think it was) and he became one of the most skilful and influential big men in the game until injury cut him down.

I remember an interview with Stafford during the 1996 season, the year he "broke out". He recalled how he sat at the 1995 B&F count and, despite having played around half the games that year, he failed to garner a single vote from the coaches. That woke him up and made him realise he had to get more out of himself. He certainly did that - and some more - in 1996,

I realise some were a little disappointed by Naismith but, if he can get some injury-free continuity in his footy, I remain pretty bullish about him. And I think it might happen sooner rather than later. He was thrust into a game where, for one side, it was effectively a final. Maybe if it had been for the team he was playing for, things might have been easier as the overall intensity would have been better. I am sure his initial nerves would have gotten worse as his side soon found itself five goals down with barely a whimper. Starting at the first centre bounce is a little different to most debutants, who are able to slip onto the field sometime during the first quarter (or later, if they are the sub) and quietly collect a handball receive without much attention. I think a lot of his errors can be put down to nerves.

Having watched him develop since he arrived as a top up player midway through the 2012 season, his development has been obvious, both in terms of his physical shape and fitness and his football craft. It has been a very positive upwards trajectory. Bear in mind we've had a long string of young (and not so young) rucks pass through our reserves team and hang around for a couple of years. Most of those never looked like reaching the required standard - Eriksen, Meiklejohn, Shaw spring to mind. Even one who did show relatively rapid development from a base of zero spent the first couple of seasons AFTER he graduated to the senior team being lambasted by a certain media "person" as the worst player in the AFL.

Several of our current core senior players looked a little out of their depth on debut. At least two were roundly written off on RWO as prospects on the basis of those nervous starts. It took barely a season before these two were established within the best 22. It may take a little longer with Naismith, given how slowly ruckmen develop, but I think he'll get there.

[Steve]

I don't disagree with your comments Liz, but I think having placed ourselves well and truly in a premiership window for at least the next couple of years, there is unique pressure to i) try and maximise the quality we have in that role now, in a position I still think is a weakness for us with Pyke, and ii) mitigate the risk of Naismith and/or Nankervis not developing into an elite ruckman (which even the best don't really achieve until into their mid-20's) and leaving us with a huge gap to fill in the next year or two.

That is really what Hawthorn have done with McEvoy and Ceglar - didn't think they could take the risk when they're in a premiership window to bring in guys like Lowden, despite his talent, and the fact he could be a good ruckman within a couple of years if given the opportunity. Harsh on those younger guys, but I think we're in the same situation not being able to risk having that position be the reason we fall short of an extra flag or two.

[Conor_Dillon]

Naismith and Nankervis are progressing well but it is unlikely that either will feature significantly in the next 2 seasons unless the development takes on a rapid incline.

Leuenberger's best is as good as any ruck in the competition and while I really rate Reid, I think we'd be a more damaging team with a gun ruckman. Unless they do plan on making Sammy a permanent CHB which they seem reluctant to at this stage.

[neilfws]

The production of ruckmen is such an unpredictable craft. Having a competent one is so important and they generally take a while to turn from apparent spud to quality. They also tend to be quite injury prone so a contender needs a couple of spares on their list, spares who accept they will play a fair bit of reserves footy, especially with clubs loathe to give regular senior time to two genuine lumberers at the same time.

Absolutely. If I remember right, we took Seaby and Mumford at the same time, assuming that Seaby was ahead of Mumford at least in terms of games played for previous club. Yet it was Mumford who came good and Seaby who fizzled.

[swansrob]

Absolutely. If I remember right, we took Seaby and Mumford at the same time, assuming that Seaby was ahead of Mumford at least in terms of games played for previous club. Yet it was Mumford who came good and Seaby who fizzled.

IIRC, Seaby was recruited as a back-up for Jolly, who then left - Mumford was subsequently recruited as a back-up for Seaby. Seaby then got injured early on and Mumford excelled when given the task of no 1.