List changes and trade bait

[mcs]

Not possible. We know that we are only a good side because we have a bursting salary cap, boosted by COLA. The Hawks' list is as least as good as ours, arguably better. Therefore it is impossible that the Hawks aren't over their salary cap already, let alone having tons of room to sign a free agent.

Have I got it right?

Didn't you hear some of their fans yesterday - they only develop players Liz, they never buy success

[Matt80]

Some good reasoned posts on here since the shock has worn off.

No point throwing all our toys out of the pram but yesterday asked some questions of our list that we failed badly

* Shaw and Goodes to retire
* Jetta trade bait (believe he is worth a first round pick if we offer some other sweeteners)
* Reid to be traded unless we make a commitment to turn him into a defender
* If either of those trades happen then we will probably be able to Malceski and I think we need him. If we don't then I think we could have enough salary cap for a mid tier young backman
* Membrey or Towers to be our third forward (feel that four bigs up front never really worked) this year never
* Keep the faith with Rohan, Cunningham and Rampe despite their average performances yesterday
* Mitchell, Jones and Heeney to all be given plenty of chances from the get go next season

I was absolutely gutting for our guys to turn on that insipid performance but I still believe we have a good and deep list.

Only issue is that the Hawks are cashed up with their Buddy budget money and apparently ready to spend so their list will be very very strong next year. Throw Frawley into that team plus perhaps another free agent and they will be formidable

Great post.

I think we also need to get the number one pick from St Kilda.

We have been humbled as a club. Journalists are writing articles poking fun at the "Bondi Billionaires". We are a "Power Club" a "Heavy Weigh" and need to throw a punch back at the Melbourne AFL establishment. We need to have the two highest rated midfielders in the 2014 draft coming into our club. We need to put Patrenka and Heeney together and show the competition that we have reinforcements on the way and we will be launching some new dynamite your way in the near future. Hannas would be a big short term loss, but we have a small window to build the competitions next powerhouse midfield.

Imagine a midfield group of:

Parker
Mitchell
Heeney
Patrenka
Mills
Dunkley
Hewitt
Lloyd
Cunningham
Jones

This is how it could look in four years.

A grouping of Parker, Patrenka and Heeney could give the Swans a grouping like Cousins, Kerr and Judd. When they tier we will send in Mitchell, Mills, Hewitt and Jones.

People will say that I'm dealing in hope, promise and little senior experience. That is true, but there is no better platform to build your next great midfield than the two top rated midfielders in one draft.

Patrenka and Heeney will get the competition talking about us in wonder again. It will cost Hannas if we want it.

[mcs]

Great post.

I think we also need to get the number one pick from St Kilda.

We have been humbled as a club. Journalists are writing articles poking fun at the "Bondi Billionaires". We are a "Power Club" a "Heavy Weigh" and need to throw a punch back at the Melbourne AFL establishment. We need to have the two highest rated midfielders in the 2014 draft coming into our club. We need to put Patrenka and Heeney together and show the competition that we have reinforcements on the way and we will be launching some new dynamite your way in the near future. Hannas would be a big short term loss, but we have a small window to build the competitions next powerhouse midfield.

Imagine a midfield group of:

Parker
Mitchell
Heeney
Patrenka
Mills
Dunkley
Hewitt
Lloyd
Cunningham
Jones

This is how it could look in four years.

A grouping of Parker, Patrenka and Heeney could give the Swans a grouping like Cousins, Kerr and Judd. When they tier we will send in Mitchell, Mills, Hewitt and Jones.

People will say that I'm dealing in hope, promise and little senior experience. That is true, but there is no better platform to build your next great midfield than the two top rated midfielders in one draft.

Patrenka and Heeney will get the competition talking about us in wonder again. It will cost Hannas if we want it.

You are putting a hell of a lot of faith in 5 players yet to play a senior game between them. It would only take for 2 of them not to hit the hype and we would be worse off then we are now. Cunningham and Jones are far from gimmees to becoming genuinely high quality footballers either (although both had good 2014 seasons).

[ernie koala]

Not possible. We know that we are only a good side because we have a bursting salary cap, boosted by COLA. The Hawks' list is as least as good as ours, arguably better. Therefore it is impossible that the Hawks aren't over their salary cap already, let alone having tons of room to sign a free agent.

Have I got it right?

Spot on Liz....If you look at their star recruits over the last 4-5 years...Gunston, Hale, Gibson, Burgoyne, Lake .....It must equate to well over $2m pa.

The Swans star recruits in the same time are, Tippett, Franklin....Around or slightly under $2m pa.

Yet I'm sure if they do recruit another expensive player this year, like Frawley, no eye brows will be raised, nothing said, business as usual.

On the other hand, if the Swans were to to recruit the same player, all hell would break loose.

Eddie's relentless attacks have helped create this situation.

[jono2707]

I think the mysterious "Petrenka" is in reference to Petracca. A very promising prospect but not worth a Hanners and the elite 2- way running he brings. Hanners was still getting over his pretty major ankle injury and he'll be back bigger and better next year.

[Matt80]

I think the mysterious "Petrenka" is in reference to Petracca. A very promising prospect but not worth a Hanners and the elite 2- way running he brings. Hanners was still getting over his pretty major ankle injury and he'll be back bigger and better next year.

Yes it is. Thanks for the correction. Petracca, Heeney and Mills are all very exciting prospects. It would be great if we could have them all. Midfielders are the most important players in any football team and these three blokes are the best aged 17 and 18 year old midfielders in the game.

Great to have Tom Mitchell feeding these kids the silver service as well. Parker will be there protector, captain and motivator.

[Ludwig]

We don't need the number one draft pick. The 1st 4 picks are likely to be midfielders and forwards. If we traded into the draft we should be looking at somewhere in the pick 6-12 range where would likely find KPDs like Sam Durdin, Hugh Goddard and Caleb Marchbank, or in the top half of the 2nd round to give us a good crack at Tom McDonald's younger brother Oscar.

If we do nominate Abe Davis for an academy selection, I would let him pass if it takes our 2nd rounder to secure him. I actually doubt someone will bid their 2nd round pick though. I feel there will still be better choices around the pick 40 mark than Davis, based on what he's shown in his NEAFL appearances.

I am putting aside the GF performance of Jetta, but still feel he has fallen short of expectations. He's actually had a pretty good season and played perhaps his best game in 2 years v Freo, but I now prefer some of the other speedy players, like Cunningham, and feel Jetta is expendable if we could get into the middle part of 1st round with every chance of landing a quality KPD.

Although Bird just re-signed a new 2 year deal, I feel he is now on the fringes of senior side due to the enormous competition for midfield spots, with more to come in the next couple of years. I doubt that he will hold his spot by finals time next year. He's one of my favourite players, but would take an early second rounder for him, not only for our benefit, but for his as well. He deserves to be senior player in the AFL.

But if we decide to stand pat, I am fine with that as well. I think we have enough quality coming through the ranks that we don't have to trade to improve the team. There are 2 focal points that need to be addressed:

1. Membrey and Towers are both coming into their 3rd year with the club. It's play them or trade them, especially as Towers is already 24 yo. With Buddy and Tippett, there's no room for another tall forward, therefore, I think Reid should move into defence and Goodes should retire, thus opening up the spots for Towers and Membrey.
2. We need to provide for a smooth transition to post Ted-Reg era. The first part of this is to move Reid into defence to take the place of Shaw, who should retire. This will give us a more traditional 3 tall backline and free Rampe to become a more attacking defender. If Malceski leaves, then Macca or Zak Jones can take his place. We still have Laidler in reserve. Biggs is yet another option, so we are not at all short of replacements for Shaw and Malceski. We should be strong enough next year to put off any hard decisions on key defenders and wait to see how it goes with AJ and the reserves trio of Walsh (hopefully retained another year), Allir and Xav. We are also likely to add a couple of KPPs in this years draft to bolster the numbers.

Our ruck situation is more maligned than it should be. The Pyke/Tippett duet is not the best in the league, but more than adequate. We are a bit thin in reserves, but I feel there is every reason to be positive about the prospects of both Naismith and Nanka. After the Megan Fox interview, Tom Derickx should get a few guest host appearances on Open Pyke.

In addition to Towers and Membrey, I feel that both Tom Mitchell and Zak Jones should become senior regulars next year. There are a few others that should be knocking on the door as well.

[The Big Cat]

We finished on top and had a bad GF. One bad game when nothing went right. An academy player in Heeney is elite. We had a heap of inexperience in the side. We need to take a deep breath and appreciate what's been achieved this year. Some of the proposals on this thread are just reactionary, ill-informed or just plain dumb! (Please don't quote the old chestnut of RWO is here for discussion if the stuff you are serving up is ridiculous. Eg trade Hanners for a high draft pick in the hope we might get another Hanners!)

[Ludwig]

Yes it is. Thanks for the correction. Petracca, Heeney and Mills are all very exciting prospects. It would be great if we could have them all. Midfielders are the most important players in any football team and these three blokes are the best aged 17 and 18 year old midfielders in the game.

Great to have Tom Mitchell feeding these kids the silver service as well. Parker will be there protector, captain and motivator.

If we were looking for a complete team rebuild with an eye on being in the premiership window around 2020, then it might make sense to chase Petracca. But we are already filled with quality midfielders and midfield prospects. In 2015 the following midfielders will be in the 18 yo to 22 yo age bracket:

Parker, Mitchell, Lloyd, Cunningham, BJ, Perris, Jones, Hewitt, Robinson, Heeney, Mills and Dunkley.

In 2020, Parker will be the eldest of this group at 27, probably his prime. Do we really need to chase any more midfielders?

Wouldn't you think that we may have greater needs elsewhere?

[stevoswan]

I would persist with Reid as a tall defender. If that means that Ted Richards plays some NEAFL next season, so be it. You also need X Richards or Allire to have a serious push for senior football in 2015.

Open to offers on Jetta. Ross Lyon could make a play as he would be desperate to have one final crack with Sandilands, Pavlich and Mcpharlin still around. Freemantle's pick in the teens would be gratefully accepted.
Open to offers on Craig Bird. I'm now firmly behind Tom Mitchell. Tom needs opportunity! Playing Bird, Kennedy, Parker and Mitchell slows the team too much. Paul Roos's early 2nd round pick would do that deal.

I cheap value deal I would like to do is Sharrod Wellingham from West Coast. He would cost nothing (4th Round) and would increase our midfield depth. He is a mate of Buddy's and could be great value if he could regain his Collingwood form.

Mark Robinson mentioned that St Kilda's pick one is in discussion with the Swans. I can only imagine that the potential deal would be Hanners or Parker. I would be a big no for Parker but may be tempted to consider Hanners. That would give us Heeney and Patrenka (best two midfielders in the 2014 draft). With Mills and Dunkley likely to come in late 2015, that would give us a potential decade of midfield stock.

As these young midfielders come through I would be playing K.Jack and Mcveigh in the small forward roles. McVeigh can also help off half back.

If Goodes and Shaw retire then spots will open for Membrey and Jones.

This is just my opinion on what could transpire.

All sounds quite reasonable. I'm all for Mitchell, Membrey and Jones getting more time in the seniors, and they shouldn't forget Biggs. Seems to always deliver when he gets a chance.

[Bleed Red Blood]

You have to pay overs to get pick 1.
To say we need to do so to send the AFL community a message is frankly idiotic, were already getting Heeney and besides the AFL community wouldn't suddenly think we are the real deal (even if somehow it magically did) they'd label us any number of other things; desperate, cant develop talent, Anyway what does it matter what anyone thinks, only results matter.

Jetta stays. We didn't put 5 years and 100 games into him just to discard him when he's already usually one of our better players and his best football is still to come..
He is bound to be in all australian contention within the next 1 or 2 years and will remain consistently so till his final years. I want that to be with us. If anything we need more players like him.

[Matt80]

If we were looking for a complete team rebuild with an eye on being in the premiership window around 2020, then it might make sense to chase Petracca. But we are already filled with quality midfielders and midfield prospects. In 2015 the following midfielders will be in the 18 yo to 22 yo age bracket:

Parker, Mitchell, Lloyd, Cunningham, BJ, Perris, Jones, Hewitt, Robinson, Heeney, Mills and Dunkley.

In 2020, Parker will be the eldest of this group at 27, probably his prime. Do we really need to chase any more midfielders?

Wouldn't you think that we may have greater needs elsewhere?

I spend most of the drive back to Sydney yesterday having the Premiership window debate with my best mate. He believes that we keep the team together and try to go one better in 2015.

My view is that the Swans are no closer to being premiers than Port Adelaide were in 2007. We were not within two kicks of a flag. We are 11 goals away. Next season there are two other teams who will improve dramatically (Port and Gold Coast). They will combine with the Hawks to make the top four a titanic struggle for the Swans.

I'm not advocating a total rebuild, just some future planning and opportunistic recruiting. We may never get an opportunity to get a Heeney again at such great value. He is rated the 2nd best midfielder in the 2014 draft. Why not put Heeney together with the highest rated midfielder in the 2014 draft Patracca? If you watch highlights of him, he looks not far behind Parker for power and strength and he looks quicker than Parker. He looks more physically ready to play senior football than Heeney in 2015. Top five midfielders generally have a better chance of coming off than top five Key Position Players. Great teams are built on great midfield's. You can never have too many of top quality midfielders. Hannas would be a huge loss, but it would give the team some salary cap relief and a chance of being a top 8 team for the next ten years.

Why can't Patracca with that big body not have a year like Bontepelli?

As great as the Hawks are they would be asking themselves who is coming next after Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis and Burgoin. If the Swans had Patracca Heeney and Mills we would know what is coming next after McVeigh, Jack and Kennedy!


This is just my opinion.

[0918330512]

You can never have too many of top quality midfielders.

Tell that to Mitchell. There are only so many players you can fit into a side. If you have too many top quality mids, some are gunna be kicking the dew in the NEAFL, then we will have to endure another season of you spewing forth trade speculation about those guys who are superfluous to our requirements.

This is just my opinion.

[MattW]

There is no way Jetta will be traded. His pace and field kicking are valuable, and once lost difficult to get back. Longmire trusts him and he has performed in big games before. His game has developed this year, this was a one-off.

Similarly, there is no way Hannebery or Parker will be traded. What would expect to get that from a trade/draft pick that is more valuable than what they offer. With Joey K, they're our most valuable mids.

Personally, I think Reid should be tradeable. He obviously has awesome physical characteristics, but I'm not sure he's hard enough. His contributions come in spurts, not all game or over consecutive games. Alternatively, I agree with the suggestion he move back to defence. But even then, I think he's great as a loose defender, but not sure he's up to one-on-one marking a strong forward.

I agree with suggestions on here that we need a tall defender and a small forward. I'd love to see membrey getting a run at being a third forward next season. We will need a third forward of goodes retires and Reid goes back/gets traded.

[goswannie14]

This is from the AFL website. Eddie Maguire would have a heart attack (possibly a good thing) if either of the "dream trades" at the end were to happen!

Mind you as with all speculation some players are mentioned with possible links to multiple clubs.

SYDNEY SWANS
Draft picks(first three rounds): 17, 36, 55
Gone: Ryan O'Keefe and Lewis Roberts-Thomson have retired, with Adam Goodes and Rhyce Shaw also chances to hang up the boots. Nick Malceski is weighing up offers from rival clubs. Shane Biggs, Matthew Dick, Jordan Lockyer and Tommy Walsh might be nervous.
What they need: Key defenders. Heath Grundy was exposed in the Grand Final and Ted Richards will be 32 by the start of next season. The Swans have got most other bases covered, although John Longmire would be keen to add ruck depth behind Mike Pyke and Tom Derickx.
Whispers: Disgruntled Essendon ruckman Paddy Ryder has been more strongly lined with the Brisbane Lions and Port Adelaide, but given the Swans completely blindsided the competition with the Lance Franklin deal 12 months ago, it would be foolish to believe they haven't at least enquired about the star Bomber. Ditto Collingwood midfielder Dayne Beams ? even though he wants to go home to Queensland ? and Melbourne's James Frawley, who would fill a key defensive weakness exposed by Hawthorn in the Grand Final.
Dream trade: The uproar would be unimaginable, but securing Ryder or Frawley would strengthen a few of the minor premiers' weaknesses. ? Travis King.