2015 academy discussion thread (with some FS thrown in for good measure)

[Dosser]

Personally I would prefer access to one player, per bidding process however that works out, and then have the go-home factor happening in reverse, where previous academy listed players want to come back to Sydney, therefore there is a risk in other clubs recruiting these players.

I hate to burst the bubble, but all interstate jokes aside, an academy player from Sydney gets picked up by a good Melbourne club and his life will never be the same. He will get fame and fortune as the public here idolise players and they get everything they ever want/need, and usually for free. In contrast, a player will go to Sydney for comparative anonymity to escape the very same. If you are an 18yo player, where would you rather be? I may be wrong, but the only player who came back because they didnt want to be in Melbourne was our own Nick KFC Davis. Successful players like Mark McVeigh and Lenny Hayes stayed here because the only reason to move back would be the weather. The footy lifestyle here in Melbourne is too attractive and comfortable for a young player, so to expect the pull of living back in Sydney to override that may be a bit naive.

[penga]

And the Cats didn't draft Hodge, so he's irrelevant.

Prior to Heeney, one NSW player had been drafted in the first round of the national draft in 15 odd years - our very own McVeigh. Only one player from NSW had been drafted in even the second round since that date - LRT. There is hardly a steady stream of top draftees emanating from NSW. As and when there is, I agree that the current system would be overly generous. But right now, there is no evidence that Heeney and Mills aren't just freak blips on the radar. The academies just haven't been given long enough to put down roots and bear fruit for any judgement to be made.

But he is relevant. If the Cats had first dibs on their talent pool (Falcons for this example) like we do ours, the Cats could have got Hodge at pick 8. Which in the balance of fairness would be unfair.

Sure, NSW boys haven't had a good run in the draft, but we're about to have a glut of talent, by all reports anyway.

Which is what GWS has been doing and will continue to do for another 7-8 years such was the generosity of the start up concessions they were given.

They are trading back excess but still highly regarded former high draft picks for new high draft picks making a mockery of a level draft.

GWS have 17 players drafted in the top 10, 5 drafted 11-20 and 6 drafted 21-30 PLUS at least 4 pre draft players who would have been top 10 picks like Cameron, Hampton, Shiel, Treloar.

So that's a full team of top 10 picks! This is a juggernaught in the making that WILL make Eddie's head explode. I wonder how he will get the AFL to nobble GWS in the future?

Exactly. While I would desperately love to see Chinswobble's head explode, I don't want my club to have that advantage.

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The footy lifestyle here in Melbourne is too attractive and comfortable for a young player, so to expect the pull of living back in Sydney to override that may be a bit naive.

That's a fair point.

It's all talk of potential at this point in time, but I just don't want to see us having our cake (premierships) and eating it too (young gun recruits), it can't work both ways.

[Matt80]

I hate to burst the bubble, but all interstate jokes aside, an academy player from Sydney gets picked up by a good Melbourne club and his life will never be the same. He will get fame and fortune as the public here idolise players and they get everything they ever want/need, and usually for free. In contrast, a player will go to Sydney for comparative anonymity to escape the very same. If you are an 18yo player, where would you rather be? I may be wrong, but the only player who came back because they didnt want to be in Melbourne was our own Nick KFC Davis. Successful players like Mark McVeigh and Lenny Hayes stayed here because the only reason to move back would be the weather. The footy lifestyle here in Melbourne is too attractive and comfortable for a young player, so to expect the pull of living back in Sydney to override that may be a bit naive.

What a post. All an 19 year AFL kid wants is a nice place to live, some great mates, good times and a smorgasbord of groupies. A 19 year old player on a Melbourne AFL club list will have a wider array of groupies that Jack Hiscox would in Sydney.

[Ludwig]

While I would desperately love to see Chinswobble's head explode, I don't want my club to have that advantage.
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I don't think that most of us on here want to see the Swans have an unfair advantage. But there is a conflict between having a program to grow the game in the northern states and not giving them some kind of advantage. Everyone likes a winner. If the AFL cannot produce winning clubs in the 4 target markets, then their 100 million dollar effort is going to fail.

Brisbane was a big success for a number of years because they had a championship team, but that has been whittled away because they couldn't sustain their competitiveness over a longer period of time, in part due to loss of salary cap benefits.

The Swans are the one big success story at present to come out of the various efforts to boost the AFL in non-traditional states. It just seems counter-productive to cut them down just because they've joined the likes of Collingwood and Hawthorn. Wasn't that the point of having a club in the Sydney market in the first place?

Yes, the Swans do have some minor advantages of being the first and most developed club in the northern markets. It's just a temporary situation that will even out in due course. It's just not the right time to cut the legs out from under the academy program, for the very reason that it is finally producing some success stories. How encouraging it will be for all NSW and QLD youngsters choosing a sport to play in see that it's possible to become a star athlete for the club you support by joining one of the academies. These incentives are necessary.

[707]

Whilst we are picking NSW draftees we are leaving Vic draftees in the pool to probably be picked up by a VFL club in their own state - win/win!

Oops, I meant AFL club :-)

[Auntie.Gerald]

Except that Ablett was rated about where he was drafted. There was no major FS discount. It is hardly the fault of that system that he has subsequently become the best player of his generation - by some margin.

Ps i know off topic....... but dont you just loving watch GA jnr play the game of AFL..................i dont think i have ever seen a better midfielder

[S.S. Bleeder]

Whilst we are picking NSW draftees we are leaving Vic draftees in the pool to probably be picked up by a VFL club in their own state - win/win!

Oops, I meant AFL club :-)

The Victoria clubs and the AFL need to remember that we either need some sort of a retention incentive or home grown player incentive. It's either one or the other. Without the COLA it will be harder for us to retain the non-NSW players we draft and without having an academy incentive we won't recruit home grown talent. In summary we will be back to the days of Anthony Rocca and Shannon Grant. The AFL want their cake and to eat it too.
Also, the whole idea of sending us up to Sydney was to expand the game and to make it a national competition.

[S.S. Bleeder]

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[Flying South]

I could be wrong here, but I wouldn't have thought the Geelong Falcons were financed by the Geelong Football Club whereas the Swans academy is 100% financed by The Sydney Swans Football Club so you really can't compare the two.

It is not quite correct to say the Swans Academy is 100% financed by the Sydney Swans Football Club. According to the Swan's website and an article by Andrew Pridham in July 2014

"The QBE Sydney Swans Academy was established in 2010 as an initiative of the AFL. An AFL working group ? that included then Collingwood recruiting manager Derek Hine (now GM List Management) - formulated and approved the club-based Academy....... The Academy costs the Sydney Swans in excess of $1 million per annum to run and is largely funded by donations and corporate support"

So technically, I believe it is funded by QBE and other sponsors. Not sure what my point is, but we can't hang our hat on to point that the football club pays for it. Though I am sure these sponsors would withdraw their support if the swans did as well. And the kicker Collingwood help set it up. Hahaha

[Ludwig]

One way to resolve the issue of finding a fair discount on the value of players in the new proposed bidding system is to directly link it to the respective percentage contribution the cost of running an academy. For instance, if the Swans pay 1 million and the AFL pays 200 k toward a total 1.2 million cost then the Swans contribute 80% of the cost and should get an 80% discount. If he AFL thinks 25% is fair. No problem. Phase in a transition of the relative financial contributions over a period of several years until it reaches the desired percentage. Let's say by 2018 we have a 1 million dollar academy with the AFL paying 75% and the Swans paying 25%.

If the AFL deems that the best way to determine the value of draft prospect is to be based on the salary related to the draft pick number bid for the player, then the same principle should hold for how the benefits of such players are allocated between the club operating the academy and the rest of the league. This directly links the relative benefits of acquiring a player's services and the cost of developing that player.

If the AFL wants to base the value of everything on it's cost, so be it. Just let them be consistent.

[S.S. Bleeder]

One way to resolve the issue of finding a fair discount on the value of players in the new proposed bidding system is to directly link it to the respective percentage contribution the cost of running an academy. For instance, if the Swans pay 1 million and the AFL pays 200 k toward a total 1.2 million cost then the Swans contribute 80% of the cost and should get an 80% discount. If he AFL thinks 25% is fair. No problem. Phase in a transition of the relative financial contributions over a period of several years until it reaches the desired percentage. Let's say by 2018 we have a 1 million dollar academy with the AFL paying 75% and the Swans paying 25%.

If the AFL deems that the best way to determine the value of draft prospect is to be based on the salary related to the draft pick number bid for the player, then the same principle should hold for how the benefits of such players are allocated between the club operating the academy and the rest of the league. This directly links the relative benefits of acquiring a player's services and the cost of developing that player.

If the AFL wants to base the value of everything on it's cost, so be it. Just let them be consistent.

Don't forget Ludwig that the Swans Foundation makes significant contributions each year. These dedicated supporters should have their donations refunded by the AFL as well. The AFL have have moved the goal posts during the match and this should cost them.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Roos: Having lived in Sydney and now Melbourne, this is all a reaction to Kurt Tippett and Lance Franklin going to the Swans. Nobody knew who Isaac Heeney was until now, and nobody really cares, but this is just a response from some clubs.

Thank you Mr Roos.
About as close to saying "this is another McGuire whine" as he can politely be

Roosy can take a flying fandango.

Nice rhetoric, but don't think he knew exactly the effect he would have in bidding for Heeney at pick 2. And done for no other reason than malice about the circumstances of his departure from the academy.

[DamY]

The Victoria clubs and the AFL need to remember that we either need some sort of a retention incentive or home grown player incentive. It's either one or the other. Without the COLA it will be harder for us to retain the non-NSW players we draft and without having an academy incentive we won't recruit home grown talent. In summary we will be back to the days of Anthony Rocca and Shannon Grant. The AFL want their cake and to eat it too.
Also, the whole idea of sending us up to Sydney was to expand the game and to make it a national competition.

Excellent point

[Meg]

"GEELONG has asked the AFL for the same father-son discount as academy recruits as the league prepares to introduce a new bidding system."
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[jono2707]

Roosy can take a flying fandango.

Nice rhetoric, but don't think he knew exactly the effect he would have in bidding for Heeney at pick 2. And done for no other reason than malice about the circumstances of his departure from the academy.

But Heeney was apparently worth that high a pick - that was a completely ok move by Melbourne as they would have gotten an absolute top notch talent if we for whatever and unlikely reason didn't match the bid. And Roosy would be better placed than pretty much all other coaches to judge the quality of an academy graduate - one I assume he'd have had a bit to do with. He'd have perhaps been negligent in his role if he didn't at least try to snare such a talented youngster.