MATCH THREAD - West Coast vs Swans round 17

[rojo]

I wonder how this performance is going to be explained away? Now the score is a little bit more respectable I guess there will be no recognition that we have an outdated and ineffective game plan, and that the multiple goal-resulting turnovers, poor execution skills and terrible decision making by so many players - is unacceptable. This was a key game and it has been a disaster, not so much the score line but the question mark it raises as to the Swans' ability to maintain a place in the top four.

[aguy]

The biggest lesson from that for me is we were only competitive when Mitchell was on the field and Pyke was off.

[Mel_C]

McVeigh's had a shocker.

Agree with this. Disposal was terrible. I had to laugh earlier when we were streaming through the middle and McVeigh was busy pointing and he was handballed the ball!

[Hotpotato]

Pretty predictable really .
No Buddy , no McGlyn , no Rohan , no Tippo..
Eagles in good form , Swans in woeful form .
Eagles were paying $1.33 Swans $3.35
The bookies are usually pretty accurate .
But still Swans showed a few good signs .

[mcs]

The biggest lesson from that for me is we were only competitive when Mitchell was on the field and Pyke was off.

We have always been hopeless at picking who to put as sub, but I can't for the life of me understand why Mitchell was made sub today. He seems to get punished after 1 or 2 below average games, when others playing are allowed to be in poor form, week in and week out but still keep getting a game.

Shame we didn't show some dare and run like what we showed at the end of the 3rd and early 4th much earlier in the game. Some frustrating football again, and we just look like we don't have a really good idea of what sort of football team we want to be. I know Buddy and Tippett weren't there today, but all their presence does is mask the underlying problems we have - and its got to eventually come back to the coaches, who are struggling to go with the times.

God I hope the AFL do something about the holding the rule ball in the obvious shake up to come to 'ease congestion'. It had no bearing on today's result, but we are not helped at all by the amount of great tackles that get laid and should be htb, only for the player to drop the ball cold or fumble it out or whatever else. Starting paying all the htb that are there (Even if it is ugly for a few weeks as a result) and you'll suddenly find that the congestion problem will begin to ease.

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Oh and one final point - Heeney is going to be an absolute superstar, no doubt about it.

[bloodspirit]

Judging by AFL fantasy points Goodes and Heeney were respectively our 11th and 12th best. Bizarre. For mine Goodes was definitely among our best afield. Heeney was quiet in the middle but still better than 12th.

Kizza and Macca let us down a bit today I think. Not good enough. We need them to stand up as our leaders. Is unfair on Parker to expect him to become the torch bearer so early in his career and while he is still developing his craft. And it shouldn't be necessary. We have so many more senior players that we should be able to rely on for leadership. I wonder if we could ask more of Smooch from a leadership perspective? He is well respected and in the prime of his career.

[Cosmic Wizard]

Kieren Jack was really hopeless as well.

It seem time has caught up with more than just one of our players.

We have to move them out of the centre to the forward or out of the team.

Jarrad McVeigh really has lost the art of kicking; i just can't believe how bad some of his kicks were!

[i'm-uninformed2]

Pretty clear Jetta's message: stick it up your cracker, you red-necked racist KKK members booing Goodes

[0918330512]

Something to be said for a stay at home forward. Fair number of times we had a fast break out is defence, bombed it long into the open and very empty forward line only to have 2-3 fast running defenders, who must've been a kick behind play, just run back & mop it up to rebound.

Something to be said for Heeney.

Nothing to be said for fast dinky little 1-2m handballs to either a flat footed teammate who is well covered, or to an opposition player who is clear. These happen often in defence (costly) or on the defensive side of a stoppage.

Adam Goodes wasn't our worst player. Is there any chance one more year for him might encourage Jetta to stay? Because Jetta's one of the few players who can find some space and who isn't afraid to kick the ball. He also has some semblance of precision by foot. Could having his friend and mentor play on, encourage Jetta to stay?

Pyke has always been a second ruckman. Not sure what Nankers is ... but, to quote Matt80, "electric pace" he ain't.

Jetta did interest in him by WA clubs no harm today ... though I hope his Goodsey war dance after his goal was passion for the Swans & his mentor.

Past players need to come back to teach the current crop. Lockett could teach any of the forwards to kick. Kirk a lesson in bloods culture. Greg Williams, effective handball in tight. Luke Ablett ... the dangers of kicking across goal in defence ... we like to do that & we turn it over a lot.

A defensive set up for kick ins after opposition behinds would be useful. I'm just not a big fan of 1) Macca - kick it to yourself, run, long kick to no one or short kick to teammate under pressure 2) Laidler - long kick to any old pack 3) anyone else - long kick to no one (after a long period of contemplation, allowing opposition to man up) or short kick to a teammate under pressure, around 25-30m out.

Mitchell gathers 25+ disposals per full game. What is the point of letting him warm the pine with a green vest for 3 quarters?

I just can't be too disappointed today. Our undermanned (no Richards Snr, Tippett, Buddy, Rohan, McGlunn?), under conditioned (Pyke) made our longest road trip & was beaten by a better side, but our youngsters got valuable senior game time and despite playing ordinary footy for much of the season, we're still 4th, our run home isn't unmanageable ... anything can happen,

[mcsquirta]

When Shaw kicks a goal and comes 2nd in the 'Deam Team' points, you know your season is over bar the shouting!

[bloodspirit]

Kieren Jack was really hopeless as well.

It seem time has caught up with more than just one of our players.

Kizza cannot use age as an excuse. He is only 28. Still your idea of moving him forward has merit once Heeney or whoever is ready to replace him in the midfield in what could turn out to be a straight swap.

Macca is 30 and seems to be sliding. This was a mediocre game but his form has dropped away more generally over this year and last. He is no longer top 5 despite his heroics v Hawthorn at the MCG.

Goodes on the other hand is past his prime but still plays a valuable role for us and regularly lifts when we need him most. Besides which he is no longer in a formal leadership position.

[ScottH]

1.9 = Our total score in the first quarter for the last 3 games to 13.4

[Nico]

I thought Shaw had a real go and was one of our better players. Maybe it is time we put some life into the mid field and put him in there with Heeney. Kennedy, Parker and Hanners have such slow reflexes (thinking). Shaw for one will put his body on the lie at centre bounces. Our midfield set up is so predictable.
That last quarter was much better when we moved the footy on quickly.

I got frustrated with Reid. He takes a couple of marks when we had a head of steam up, and just stood there and slowed up the game. Cunningham the same in the backline, then finally kicks a hospital kick to Hanners. Hanners was there for 5 minutes.

It is beyond me as to why we don't play the quick play on, run to space type footy when Franklin is up forward. If we did he would tear any back line apart. Finally we went forward instead of hand balling and kicking backwards. And hello, when we finally won a couple of centre clearances we got quick goals. So coming back to my point about our centre bounce set up. Put some bloody quick footed and thinking people in there.

Clearly Pyke is cooked. We have to go with Nankervis and Reid in the ruck and leave Tippet and Franklin as our key forwards, get it in quick and give them a chance. Reid is horrible in front of goal.

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Kizza cannot use age as an excuse. He is only 28. Still your idea of moving him forward has merit once Heeney or whoever is ready to replace him in the midfield in what could turn out to be a straight swap.

Macca is 30 and seems to be sliding. This was a mediocre game but his form has dropped away more generally over this year and last. He is no longer top 5 despite his heroics v Hawthorn at the MCG.

Goodes on the other hand is past his prime but still plays a valuable role for us and regularly lifts when we need him most. Besides which he is no longer in a formal leadership position.

Harsh on Jack. He was our best last week and looked injured to me. Maybe he ran himself into the ground last week when he covered for our slow and sloppy midfield.

[giant]

1.9 = Our total score in the first quarter for the last 3 games to 13.4

Yep. Says it all.

So - are we allowed to panic yet?

[crackedactor]

forwards coach

Kieren Jack was really hopeless as well.

It seem time has caught up with more than just one of our players.

We have to move them out of the centre to the forward or out of the team.

Jarrad McVeigh really has lost the art of kicking; i just can't believe how bad some of his kicks were!

I don't understand why some of these players cannot kick any more? McVeigh/jack just to mention a few. It looks like Pyke's just about gone, maybe time to return to Canada. Nankervis shows promise, but it not at AFL standard just yet. Future looking grim, which is grossly unfair re the AFL trading restrictions. The forward efficiency was about 40%, Blakney is our forward coach. Would he be the worst forwards coach in AFL history???