MATCH THREAD - West Coast vs Swans round 17

[mcs]

Playfair is the forwards coach Blakey the backs

I can't help but think if Reid has nailed those two set shots early on whether it would have been any different. We came out with intensity and tackled well but got no reward for it and then they fully capitalised on our turnovers

Hard to argue with that Ugg - its been the story of our losses (except last week). Wastefulness in front of the sticks being very costly. We could easily have gone in on par or in front at quarter time if we hadn't wasted our chances.

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It is beyond me as to why we don't play the quick play on, run to space type footy when Franklin is up forward. If we did he would tear any back line apart. Finally we went forward instead of hand balling and kicking backwards. And hello, when we finally won a couple of centre clearances we got quick goals. So coming back to my point about our centre bounce set up. Put some bloody quick footed and thinking people in there.

I struggle to understand this as well. It seems the presence of two forwards means the one resemblance of a game plan we have is thrown into the gutter and replaced with 'bomb it and hope the big guy can beat 3 defenders'. That 15-20 minutes at the end of the 3rd/early 4th shows that those tactics can still work, even against relatively high skilled teams like Wet Coke.

[goswannies]

Strange that the AFL website interview Blakney to talk about our forward line who had the same amount of forward entries as Hawthorn last week. Why did they not interview Mayfair.? If he is the forward coach, though I am not 100% sure,its time for him to move on.

Jeez with Blakney, Blakey, Mayfair and Playfair and all the others, how much do we spend on our coaching department? No wonder the players are confused with more coaches than players!

[mcs]

This reminds me of the Nick Smith interview that did the rounds this week. The one thing that grabbed me was him saying "we need to work on our Communication more". I didn't know whether he meant on- or off-field... now I'm pretty sure he means Off-field (coaching) communication - whether he knows it or not.

Coaching all across the board is seriously anemic... and I say that with love.

Well some work on field would help... look at the two coach killers when we were on a roll early in the 4th - the BJ kick for goal when he had a free man 30 metres in front of him that could have strolled into an open goal, and the forward line marking contest which should have been an easy uncontested mark for the free man coming in, but our own player spoiled it.

Our backline has also, on many an occasion this season, cost us plenty of goals through simple lack of communication (mainly spoiling instead of easy marks).

[liz]

Hard to argue with that Ugg - its been the story of our losses (except last week). Wastefulness in front of the sticks being very costly. We could easily have gone in on par or in front at quarter time if we hadn't wasted our chances.

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I struggle to understand this as well. It seems the presence of two forwards means the one resemblance of a game plan we have is thrown into the gutter and replaced with 'bomb it and hope the big guy can beat 3 defenders'. That 15-20 minutes at the end of the 3rd/early 4th shows that those tactics can still work, even against relatively high skilled teams like Wet Coke.

I don't think you should "except last week". I thought it was pretty much the same last week. We probably would have lost anyway- the Hawks were that good. But we matched them reasonably well in the first quarter but couldn't put any score on the board. When they got the ball, they converted and had six on the board by quarter time. Almost the exact same tale this week. It's clearly not the only thing that needs to improve, but you can see heads drop and legs get slower when the team stops believing it can kick a score even when it wins the ball.

[mcs]

Back from the Riser and feeling fairly happy, mainly because at no time in the last two weeks did I think we would win this game. And when Buddy went out, the thought was, well let's see what the youngsters can do.

Nanka had a good game, kept Nic Nat honest and worked himself into the ground. Great attitude. Despite the naysayers, I was pleased with BJ tonight. He worked hard, including going in hard to tackle, spoiled a couple of things with over exuberance, but gave it his best shot, and his best is very good. Xav had a couple of clangers, but on the whole has potential and I hope we keep him; the free he conceded for supposedly pushing was a dud ruling, went in with his body, I hope he keeps developing. Heeney of course is beyond praise.

The old blokes weren't bad, apart from McVeigh who had an off day and has become a bit inconsistent. Reg is having a good season, did the necessary again today. Pyke was good but tired, needs to work his way back into condition. Shaw was good today and I agree with the poster who said he should play in the midfield; he did some good stuff in there today, and his goal was a just reward. Goodes is still in our starting 18, is dangerous and keeps the defence on their toes. Josh was solid and hard working, Hanners was quieter but tightly tagged, likewise Parker. Sammy had a horrid game in front of goal. He and a few others should be working on it.

The defence worked their butts off tonight, produced their share of clangers which show up there like nowhere else, but they ran well together. Rampe was good, Jermy worked hard, Smithy seems to be inching back into where he should be.

The skills, the MOST BASIC skills, are still lamentable: kicking with REASONABLE accuracy, marking, positioning to receive - these are all pretty basic and our efforts do not look like a genuine grade team. Defence needs attention: there were far too many easy marks inside 50 by WC tonight, and you can't get away with that when you're playing against blokes like Kennedy, Le Cras, etc.

Lots of room for improvement. Otherwise us fans will save lots of money in September!

McVeigh was dreadful in my book. BJ has talent, but does frustrating things still - I'd think about keeping him in as a small/medium forward though, he isn't bad up there and can apply pressure. Annoyed about his selfish moment in the 4th quarter though, needed to lower the eyes and take the team option, not the glory option.

The free Xav gave away for 'pushing' was a prime example of the high quality (cough cough cough) umpiring you get at Subiaco. Was fantastic bodywork and that was it. He had a pretty decent game I thought - he needs exposure and time in the big league to continue to develop.

Rampe I thought tried so hard today and had a pretty good game - his last few weeks have been good.

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I don't think you should "except last week". I thought it was pretty much the same last week. We probably would have lost anyway- the Hawks were that good. But we matched them reasonably well in the first quarter but couldn't put any score on the board. When they got the ball, they converted and had six on the board by quarter time. Almost the exact same tale this week. It's clearly not the only thing that needs to improve, but you can see heads drop and legs get slower when the team stops believing it can kick a score even when it wins the ball.

I'd left it out on the basis you suggested - i.e. we could probably have kicked every chance we had last week and still got done. But as you say, even it had the same tell tale signs.

What is frustrating about many of the misses is that they are very gettable shots. Its not like we are only getting kicks from 50 metres out on the boundary line. These are regulation kicks that even half reasonable footballers should be kicking far more often than they miss.

[ugg]

From the presser, Buddy flew back to Sydney this afternoon and they're "hopeful" he'll play against the Crows

[Ludwig]

I thought this was one of our best games of the year. It has been clear for a long time that we have a lot of problems and the last 2 games shows where we are at. Knowledge is a valuable thing. The question is whether our football dept will use it to advantage.

It was troubling that we lost the contested possessions by such a wide margin. I didn't get that impression watching the game. I'll have to see what happened on the replay, if I can bear to watch it.

You could say that Reid took us out of the game in the 1at qtr and it was only a matter of how much we would lose by that was in question. I wasn't surprised by the number of times we kicked directly to the an Eagle, because that's the way we've been playing all year. What has been disappointing is just how far off the Macca's kicking has become. Hanners was always mediocre at best, but he's gone down considerably as well. We are just a really poor kicking team and it's not clear how that's going to get rectified. Goodes and Shaw were 2 of our best, which is sad in a way.

On the bright side were the performances of Richards and some of the other younger players. X showed that he can defend and I feel more confident now that he can make it at AFL level. That's a big plus. Rampe also showed he can defend against a top quality forward who is much bigger than he is. BJ makes plenty of mistakes but has a bit of talent and if he can work out those things may have a future.

I hope some of animosity between Jetta and the Perth fans will make him sign on with us, because we really need him.

If we want to have a quick turnaround in form next year it's best to start now. We need to begin playing those that look to have a future with the club even at the expense of established players like McVeigh. I would give Hewett, Newman, Marsh, Aliir and Davis all a go at senior level this year. Maybe they will surprise as Richards did today. I've we use the rest of the season to best position ourselves for a hopeless finals campaign we could we be sacrificing next year as well.

[Brettb]

Back from the Riser and feeling fairly happy, mainly because at no time in the last two weeks did I think we would win this game. And when Buddy went out, the thought was, well let's see what the youngsters can do.

Nanka had a good game, kept Nic Nat honest and worked himself into the ground. Great attitude. Despite the naysayers, I was pleased with BJ tonight. He worked hard, including going in hard to tackle, spoiled a couple of things with over exuberance, but gave it his best shot, and his best is very good. Xav had a couple of clangers, but on the whole has potential and I hope we keep him; the free he conceded for supposedly pushing was a dud ruling, went in with his body, I hope he keeps developing. Heeney of course is beyond praise.

The old blokes weren't bad, apart from McVeigh who had an off day and has become a bit inconsistent. Reg is having a good season, did the necessary again today. Pyke was good but tired, needs to work his way back into condition. Shaw was good today and I agree with the poster who said he should play in the midfield; he did some good stuff in there today, and his goal was a just reward. Goodes is still in our starting 18, is dangerous and keeps the defence on their toes. Josh was solid and hard working, Hanners was quieter but tightly tagged, likewise Parker. Sammy had a horrid game in front of goal. He and a few others should be working on it.

The defence worked their butts off tonight, produced their share of clangers which show up there like nowhere else, but they ran well together. Rampe was good, Jermy worked hard, Smithy seems to be inching back into where he should be.

The skills, the MOST BASIC skills, are still lamentable: kicking with REASONABLE accuracy, marking, positioning to receive - these are all pretty basic and our efforts do not look like a genuine grade team. Defence needs attention: there were far too many easy marks inside 50 by WC tonight, and you can't get away with that when you're playing against blokes like Kennedy, Le Cras, etc.

Lots of room for improvement. Otherwise us fans will save lots of money in September!

Not quite sure how you thought Pyke was good? He had 4 possessions, 1 mark and 1 tackle and in my opinion is nothing more than a passenger at the moment, he has zero influence around the ground. We cannot carry him any longer, we are playing one short.

[longmile]

The Heeney shrine in my bedroom is coming along

[Doctor]

Jetta's war dance was brilliant. Apparently Glen Jakovich said on SEN during the coverage that it was "completely unacceptable", so he's learned nothing. I have no idea whether Jetta was just celebrating culturally because he could, and is proud of who he is, or because they were booing Goodesy, or because he was copping it too, or whether it's just something he thought was cool. Whatever it was for, I loved it.

[i'm-uninformed2]

And yes, at least we know after today Jetta won't be going to play with the KKK. Let's remember, a lot of people in Perth are ex-South Africans who left because they were disappointed by the end of apartheid.

[MattW]

Again, in a big game, our leaders didn't impose themselves. Luke and Joey were the two highest possession winners but we didn't hurt them in the middle, not enough of our tackles stuck. McVeigh looks shot of confidence - that's the worst I can remember him disposing of the ball. We need to count on him to kick at 90%. And if he's not kicking well, he's a liability because he's slow and not a big body. Has he hit the cliff? Hanners was down, although made 9 tackles.

Very impressed with Heeney and Nankervis. Toby should play the rest of the year out - plays with real spirit. Shaw and Goodes played with heart, as did Jetta - I had a lot of affection for him today. Bravo for sticking up for Goodsey. West Coast fans were the worst yet, and that doesn't surprise me; I came away from my last experience in Perth thinking it was a place of above-average racism. Brandon Jack was pretty good, but made some bad decisions. Xavier showed promise. Rampe was excellent.

Overall, we're not playing with enough bite and vigour. We're weaker in the tackle. That's a reason why Nankervis is a keeper.

We're missing important players - obviously Franklin, but particularly Rohan, also McGlynn and Tippett. Ted's out, but he's been down this year. We may even get the first three back next week? Still believe enough to travel up from Canberra for it.

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Jetta's war dance was brilliant. Apparently Glen Jakovich said on SEN during the coverage that it was "completely unacceptable", so he's learned nothing. I have no idea whether Jetta was just celebrating culturally because he could, and is proud of who he is, or because they were booing Goodesy, or because he was copping it too, or whether it's just something he thought was cool. Whatever it was for, I loved it.

Longmire said he was sticking up for Goodsey.

[Mug Punter]

Not quite sure how you thought Pyke was good? He had 4 possessions, 1 mark and 1 tackle and in my opinion is nothing more than a passenger at the moment, he has zero influence around the ground. We cannot carry him any longer, we are playing one short.

He has had a brilliant career but I fear Mike may well be seeing our his career in the twos.

I'd go with Tippet as our #1 Ruckman with Nanka as #2 ruck/forward

We have Buddy and Benny to come into the forward line which looks a hell of a lot better with Heeney there.

[MattW]

He has had a brilliant career but I fear Mike may well be seeing our his career in the twos.

I'd go with Tippet as our #1 Ruckman with Nanka as #2 ruck/forward

We have Buddy and Benny to come into the forward line which looks a hell of a lot better with Heeney there.

Tippett's hand injury came at a really bad time. A ruck legion of Tippett and Nankervis would go well. Judging from the Longmire presser, I don't think Pyke will play next week.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Watch Horse's press conference. He's usually pretty guarded but his support for Jetta and his absolute horror at the ongoing booing of Goodes is very clear. No discretion and good on him