Buddy (merged thread)

[6'2, 220, 4.53]

I know I risk being shouted down with this comment but I just feel that there is more to this story than meets the eye.

I hope I am wrong but for Buddy to pull out on the verge of our most important match indicates a sudden serious development in whatever his mental health condition is. The club says it was aware of the condition for some time before the announcement so that makes any depression on anxiety condition sit uneasily with me. As a sufferer of depression I know that getting help is the most important thing you can do and that as a rule you at least address the slide pretty quickly. Had the club known for a while as they claim then you'd think he would be at least stabilising or improving with his treatment.

It all smacks to me of something that developed very quickly in the final weeks of August for this to happen, something that triggered a very serious meltdown, you get the feeling this is an extremely serious situation.

I think we are being incredible na?ve to discount that drugs may not be part of Buddy's issues for the following reasons
(1) He has long been rumoured to have a colourful lifestyle and there's usually not smoke without fire there. Rightly or wrongly Buddy just appears to be one of those people that attracts trouble.
(2) The timing just before the finals also sniffs of a cover up and as we all know the AFL is anything but transparent. If Buddy's problems are drug related it would have totally dominated September and that is NOT what the AFL would have wanted
(3) The vague general terms of the Swans statements and the complete radio silence on the issue

I know that Buddy is entitled to his privacy at this time and that for now the priority needs to be him getting better but until this issue becomes a bit clearer we will all be very very uneasy.

None of us have the rights to know the exact details of Buddy's issues but I just hope that we don't end up feeling we have seen a cover up.

BTW I just found out that any drug strikes on a players get removed after three years and that clubs don't get notified on the first two - what an effing joke. No wonder Ben Cousins was able to remain on the field without getting caught under this policy

That's outstanding Mug. Very fair. I'm not sure what Bloods issue is because this is a great post.

A family member of mine works on occasion with Jacinta. I asked him if he had any Buddy insight. He replied that he did not ask Jacinta out of respect for the privacy of the situation.

Keep going Mug. I'm blocking for you so you can hit a lane.

[Nico]

Demetrious was far better than McLachlan in terms of equitable treatment of Northern clubs.

He had some balls.

[Mug Punter]

I think most of your comments are fair, and I don't want to get caught up in speculation about a guy who as far as we know is in a bad way psychologically. Mental health is something pretty close to my heart also and it affects everyone differently. But the vagueness of the club when discussing the issue almost invited speculation from the public and the media, particularly when it regards a guy like Buddy who's had rumours swirling for years about his lifestyle. I know it's nobodies business what the specifics are of his condition, but if he was suffering severe depression, could they not have just said that? . Or If he had been diagnosed as Bi-polar, or has an anxiety disorder, why not just say that? Is that too personal to reveal? Perhaps. But Instead they say next to nothing and the lack of detail provided invites vicious rumours to be spread and surely that can't be helping his situation or condition, if it is any of the above mentioned conditions. I do disagree with your assessment that because the club was aware of his condition, that would make a rapid deterioration of his condition ( that would stop him playing) unlikely. Mental illness, from my understanding and experience with others and myself, is vastly different person to person and can be volatile. My mother is bi polar, she can be completely normal on her meds for years at a time and then be in a clinic receiving intensive treatment -having suffered another episode at the snap of a fingers.

Thanks for that, I genuinely wasn't trying to be provocative with my post.

Maybe I was being too presumptuous re my assessment re the deterioration of his condition

Whatever the situation is the absolute priority needs to be Buddy's health.

IF it is drug related or drug facilitated (I hate how the likes of Ben Cousins and Andrew Johns' call the mental health card to try and justify the fact they are drug addicts or alcoholics) then I hope he gets the help he needs regardless of whether it becomes public knowledge (i.e. whether it is a third strike or not) The story of Ben Cousins should serve as a tragic tale of where a young man has no-one to say no to him until it was too late.

And if (as the rumour mongers are saying, and I hope this is not true) it is treatment as he awaits a third strike then so what? He gets suspended for 12 matches and he gets the chance to re-build his life after proper treatment and with the support of his club and also his partner who seems to me to be a very caring and sensible lady.

[mcs]

I know I risk being shouted down with this comment but I just feel that there is more to this story than meets the eye.

I hope I am wrong but for Buddy to pull out on the verge of our most important match indicates a sudden serious development in whatever his mental health condition is. The club says it was aware of the condition for some time before the announcement so that makes any depression on anxiety condition sit uneasily with me. As a sufferer of depression I know that getting help is the most important thing you can do and that as a rule you at least address the slide pretty quickly. Had the club known for a while as they claim then you'd think he would be at least stabilising or improving with his treatment.

It all smacks to me of something that developed very quickly in the final weeks of August for this to happen, something that triggered a very serious meltdown, you get the feeling this is an extremely serious situation.

I think we are being incredible na?ve to discount that drugs may not be part of Buddy's issues for the following reasons
(1) He has long been rumoured to have a colourful lifestyle and there's usually not smoke without fire there. Rightly or wrongly Buddy just appears to be one of those people that attracts trouble.
(2) The timing just before the finals also sniffs of a cover up and as we all know the AFL is anything but transparent. If Buddy's problems are drug related it would have totally dominated September and that is NOT what the AFL would have wanted
(3) The vague general terms of the Swans statements and the complete radio silence on the issue

I know that Buddy is entitled to his privacy at this time and that for now the priority needs to be him getting better but until this issue becomes a bit clearer we will all be very very uneasy.

None of us have the rights to know the exact details of Buddy's issues but I just hope that we don't end up feeling we have seen a cover up.

BTW I just found out that any drug strikes on a players get removed after three years and that clubs don't get notified on the first two - what an effing joke. No wonder Ben Cousins was able to remain on the field without getting caught under this policy

I'm not going to argue at all around whether this is or isn't a conspiracy in this space (I don't think there is - but I'd put nothing past the AFL in particular) - but as with all the conspiracy theories about Buddy, what I can't get my head around is why the Swans and the AFL would put their heads on the chopping block (in terms of reputation) and stake it all on being a 'mental health issue' if it wasn't.

Yes I can envisage a covering up of a drugs issue, but why choose 'mental health' to do so. If it comes out in the wash that indeed it was a cover up, the AFL and the Swans would be get absolutely bashed from pillar to post on the issue of using that as a cover up - it would be an absolutely abysmal look for the game in general and do a lot of long term damage to the brand (given how hard it already is to get many in society to take mental health issues seriously.)

There are plenty of other excuses they could of more easily used in such a case of a drug third strike or whatever other indiscretion one can dream up to cover up what really happened - certainly plenty before you'd go down the 'mental health' route.

[Bloods05]

Peanut

I remain unconvinced that this is anything other than prurience and scandal-mongering. The demands of fans for "more information" strike me as petulant and childish. The idea that there has to be more, something that "they" are hiding from us, seems to me a product of the sense of entitlement that says we have a right to know all the details because we're "upset" that Buddy has "let us down" by making himself unavailable to play, so somehow he has an obligation to tell us all the details.

Quite apart from any consideration of Buddy's right to privacy, there is the overriding need to consider what people need in order to recover from episodes like this. Even if we must insist on seeing this purely through the utilitarian lens of what is most likely to get him back playing at his best as soon as possible, as some here seem to do, it should be obvious that intrusive, uninformed speculation in public forums is unlikely to achieve that result.

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When it comes to mental illness the diagnosis, treatment and prognosis are all difficult and full of uncertainty. It shouldn't be surprising that there is not much forthcoming about Buddy's condition. There probably isn't much more that can be said that hasn't already been said.

What kind of a statement do we expect? Perhaps something like this?:

'We opened up his skull, looked inside, took out a few of the damaged bits, put a plate in to stabilize things and sewed him up. He should should be right to go in about 5 or 6 weeks.'

Some robust good sense. Thank you.

[6'2, 220, 4.53]

I remain unconvinced that this is anything other than prurience and scandal-mongering. The demands of fans for "more information" strike me as petulant and childish. The idea that there has to be more, something that "they" are hiding from us, seems to me a product of the sense of entitlement that says we have a right to know all the details because we're "upset" that Buddy has "let us down" by making himself unavailable to play, so somehow he has an obligation to tell us all the details.

Quite apart from any consideration of Buddy's right to privacy, there is the overriding need to consider what people need in order to recover from episodes like this. Even if we must insist on seeing this purely through the utilitarian lens of what is most likely to get him back playing at his best as soon as possible, as some here seem to do, it should be obvious that intrusive, uninformed speculation in public forums is unlikely to achieve that result.

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Some robust good sense. Thank you.

I don't know the full extent of Buddies issues, but I'm intrigued that he has never been included in a leadership group.

Why has he not been in a leadership group? Wayne Carey could captain a club, Ben Cousins could captain a club.

How could such an inspirational player who does the hard stuff not be considered for a leadership position?

The fact that a superstar like Buddy can't crack the leadership group is one reason I ask questions of the man.

The biggest mistake Buddy has made was firing Liam Pickering as his manager in favour of Jacinta's manager. Liam would have been incredible in this scenario. Buddy turned his back on Liam and I don't think it's helped him.

[Mug Punter]

I'm not going to argue at all around whether this is or isn't a conspiracy in this space (I don't think there is - but I'd put nothing past the AFL in particular) - but as with all the conspiracy theories about Buddy, what I can't get my head around is why the Swans and the AFL would put their heads on the chopping block (in terms of reputation) and stake it all on being a 'mental health issue' if it wasn't.

Yes I can envisage a covering up of a drugs issue, but why choose 'mental health' to do so. If it comes out in the wash that indeed it was a cover up, the AFL and the Swans would be get absolutely bashed from pillar to post on the issue of using that as a cover up - it would be an absolutely abysmal look for the game in general and do a lot of long term damage to the brand (given how hard it already is to get many in society to take mental health issues seriously.)

There are plenty of other excuses they could of more easily used in such a case of a drug third strike or whatever other indiscretion one can dream up to cover up what really happened - certainly plenty before you'd go down the 'mental health' route.

At the risk of raising Bloods05 bloods pressure even further, and totally playing devil's advocate, it could well be argued that addiction is a mental health issue and often mental health issues and addiction go hand in hand. In fact it really is a chicken and the egg situation - are people being drawn to drugs due to some underlying mental condition or do they develop a mental condition because of drug taking. It is clearly a complex situation and every case is different but I do get pissed off when sports stars use the mental illness get out of jail free card a la Ben Cousins - no mate you are not Bi Polar you are suffering from drug induced psychosis...

In terms of any cover up there are really only two scenarios....

(1) Buddy has spun out of control and the Swans have gotten a sniff of it (no pun intended) and he has been quarantined for both his own welfare and to avoid a third test. As such I would imagine the issue is now a confidential one between Buddy and his medical professionals.

(2) He has failed a third test and in rehab and counselling awaiting the B sample result - in this instance the AFL and Swans could well be able to justify the euphemism in respect of Buddy being innocent until proven guilty.

If it is (2) I would expect to see the brown stuff hit the fan in the next fortnight...

As I have said before the main thing is that he is now getting treated for whatever he is suffering from. As someone who has stared into the abyss of mental illness I am certain it will be without doubt the toughest fight of his life. But I'm backing him to beat whatever it is because he is a champion. It will be tough and humbling but he has the rest of his life ahead of him so best for him to face his demons now. And I reckon he has the potential to come back an even better footballer..

[Mug Punter]

I don't know the full extent of Buddies issues, but I'm intrigued that he has never been included in a leadership group.

Why has he not been in a leadership group? Wayne Carey could captain a club, Ben Cousins could captain a club.

How could such an inspirational player who does the hard stuff not be considered for a leadership position?

The fact that a superstar like Buddy can't crack the leadership group is one reason I ask questions of the man.

The biggest mistake Buddy has made was firing Liam Pickering as his manager in favour of Jacinta's manager. Liam would have been incredible in this scenario. Buddy turned his back on Liam and I don't think it's helped him.

It smacks of hitting a man when he is down but I just guess Buddy is viewed as perhaps not an, ahem, ideal role model for the young kids. And that's OK because footy clubs take all types and there's a place for larrikins like Buddy, you can see how he is still clearly loved by his ex Hawks teammates

It seems hard to criticise Jacinta as she comes across as such an outstanding young lady but you may be right re Pickers

[Melbourne_Blood]

I remain unconvinced that this is anything other than prurience and scandal-mongering. The demands of fans for "more information" strike me as petulant and childish. The idea that there has to be more, something that "they" are hiding from us, seems to me a product of the sense of entitlement that says we have a right to know all the details because we're "upset" that Buddy has "let us down" by making himself unavailable to play, so somehow he has an obligation to tell us all the details.

Quite apart from any consideration of Buddy's right to privacy, there is the overriding need to consider what people need in order to recover from episodes like this. Even if we must insist on seeing this purely through the utilitarian lens of what is most likely to get him back playing at his best as soon as possible, as some here seem to do, it should be obvious that intrusive, uninformed speculation in public forums is unlikely to achieve that result.

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Some robust good sense. Thank you.

The only point I was trying to make is that in being so vague about his condition/ situation, the swans have kind of allowed this speculation storm to occur, which I think is quite obviously not helpful for Buddy or Jacinta or their families etc. . I know there is a stigma attached to mental health, I personally think honesty and openness on the subject leads to better education and understanding and helps to break down the barriers and reduces the stigma. Although I understand it's a very difficult thing to open up about. Mitch Clark is a good example is someone who has spoken out about their struggles. By no means does Buddy owe anybody a detailed description of whatever it is that is haunting him, and the priority should be 100% his health, but he now has all these nasty rumours and this constant innuendo flying around and maybe that could have been avoided with a tiny bit more transparency from the club. And the fact that this is still all we know, it naturally is going to make people wonder, particularly with Buddy's reputation ( truthful or not, he has a reputation as a hard partying man, or at least has had that reputation in the past) And the 2 strikes rumour that has persisted for some years now.

[Ludwig]

In terms of any cover up there are really only two scenarios....

(1) Buddy has spun out of control and the Swans have gotten a sniff of it (no pun intended) and he has been quarantined for both his own welfare and to avoid a third test. As such I would imagine the issue is now a confidential one between Buddy and his medical professionals.

(2) He has failed a third test and in rehab and counselling awaiting the B sample result - in this instance the AFL and Swans could well be able to justify the euphemism in respect of Buddy being innocent until proven guilty.

There's another scenario that you omitted:

(3) Buddy has been abducted by aliens and the Swans are in secret negotiations with the Russians who are the only ones with a space program capable of getting him back. The AFL have colluded with the cover-up because of a heretofore undisclosed 'get out clause' in the 9 year salary cap inclusion if Buddy could not play due to alien abduction. Rumours are that the aliens really wanted Jesinta, but made screwed up..

[Mug Punter]

The only point I was trying to make is that in being so vague about his condition/ situation, the swans have kind of allowed this speculation storm to occur, which I think is quite obviously not helpful for Buddy or Jacinta or their families etc. . I know there is a stigma attached to mental health, I personally think honesty and openness on the subject leads to better education and understanding and helps to break down the barriers and reduces the stigma. Although I understand it's a very difficult thing to open up about. Mitch Clark is a good example is someone who has spoken out about their struggles. By no means does Buddy owe anybody a detailed description of whatever it is that is haunting him, and the priority should be 100% his health, but he now has all these nasty rumours and this constant innuendo flying around and maybe that could have been avoided with a tiny bit more transparency from the club. And the fact that this is still all we know, it naturally is going to make people wonder, particularly with Buddy's reputation ( truthful or not, he has a reputation as a hard partying man, or at least has had that reputation in the past) And the 2 strikes rumour that has persisted for some years now.

Whether it was a third strike enforced hospitalisation or not will be revealed over the next few weeks.

If it isn't then I feel for Buddy as the media attention when he leaves hospital will be insatiable at first. It would be nice to think they'll respect his privacy but I just can't see that happening so he'll have to answer the drug rumours directly when he leaves. What should he do in such an instance - well, I'd like him to tell the truth, and I'd admire him for his courage in admitting it (IF IT'S TRUE) but I suspect he'll be advised to do otherwise

[Number 43]

How good has Wayne Schwass been on Q & A tonight? Legend! And speaking on a great cause. Go Wayne and go Buddy!

[YvonneH]

Was it ever stated that Mitch Clarke's was 'depression' or was it stated as 'mental health issues'?. I think it was depression, which took all the speculation out of it.

I still remember seeing Mitch come of the ground after a WIN in tears with Chris Scott's arm around him. So sad.

[Conor_Dillon]

I don't know the full extent of Buddies issues, but I'm intrigued that he has never been included in a leadership group.

Why has he not been in a leadership group? Wayne Carey could captain a club, Ben Cousins could captain a club.

How could such an inspirational player who does the hard stuff not be considered for a leadership position?

The fact that a superstar like Buddy can't crack the leadership group is one reason I ask questions of the man.

The biggest mistake Buddy has made was firing Liam Pickering as his manager in favour of Jacinta's manager. Liam would have been incredible in this scenario. Buddy turned his back on Liam and I don't think it's helped him.

Maybe he would prefer to focus on his football? This thread is getting ridiculous.

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Also, why would John Longmire go on record as saying that he expects Buddy to make a full recovery and be ready for the start of pre-season if any of the above 'theories' were true?

[AnnieH]

I don't know the full extent of Buddies issues, but I'm intrigued that he has never been included in a leadership group.

Why has he not been in a leadership group? Wayne Carey could captain a club, Ben Cousins could captain a club.

How could such an inspirational player who does the hard stuff not be considered for a leadership position?

The fact that a superstar like Buddy can't crack the leadership group is one reason I ask questions of the man.

The biggest mistake Buddy has made was firing Liam Pickering as his manager in favour of Jacinta's manager. Liam would have been incredible in this scenario. Buddy turned his back on Liam and I don't think it's helped him.

Have you ever met Buddy?
For his size and stature, he's a very shy man.
Maybe that's why he's never been in a leadership group.
Maybe he's just happy doing what he's doing without the extras.