The Final Quarter / The Australian Dream (AG documentaries) and related discussion

[dimelb]

These statistics are an issue but NONE of these are caused by racism or discrimination. They have everything to do with indigenous people struggling to cope with modern society. This is not a deliberate act by "white people". It is a consequence of modern society.


Firstly there was no "stolen generation". Secondly, children of ALL backgrounds were removed from their parents, not just Aboriginal children. Thirdly, the process may have been flawed in some situations but in majority of situations it probably saved the lives of many of these children who were either being abused or raised in sub-standard conditions.


It's time for all Australans to unite as one but this will never happen whilst the left and certain Indigenous Australians continue to promote this divide...

Hi SSB, you have provided more stuff here than I can respond to at present, so I hope you won't mind if I pick out what I think is the single most important comment you make.

I mildly disagree with your first comment because I think it is not so much a right/wrong picture as a both/and picture. I think modern Western society is obviously a key issue, but its impact is magnified by racism and discrimination. I can still remember the football game (RL) I played in a Randwick school team and got soundly trounced by the boys from La Perouse. Our headmaster, a decent practising Catholic and outstanding teacher, told my mother that it was good for the boys to be able to excel at the game because their brains were differently structured from ours. There was little or no conscious racism or discrimination in the comment, it was just the way things were. But we needed to change.

And I accept that much of what you say about the "stolen generation" is true, and that the flawed process in fact made some lives better. But the problem arises when we consider that one of the reasons why children were taken from their parents was that they were Aboriginal, an action based on the notion that few or no Aborigines could raise children properly. I think we have moved on to some extent from this sort of position, but it remains a vexed issue simply because parental inadequacy is not derived exclusively from race.

Finally I respect the work of the GO Foundation because they seem to be clear about the both/and issues of modern society. We could say, using an old distinction, that what they are seeking to make possible is what might be called an indigenous middle class. And in my humble opinion, a strong and stable middle class is the backbone of an open society, and to see more Aboriginal people in this category is for me an encouraging experience. I feel you might agree with that level of change?

[Bloods05]

Partially true, but that's his job and he's always been pro NRL. It's very similar to reporters writing for Victorian papers who are biased towards the Victorian clubs. They're writing to their market. That's the way it works.

So telling their readers what they think they want to hear, rather than writing with integrity. I find it hard to respect that, but that's just me.

[liz]

A number of posts had drifted into topics far broader than the Goodes/football focus of this thread (and football only focus of this forum). That conversation can be continued on the Open Chat forum. You can find the thread here:

RWO - RedAndWhiteOnline.com

[Bloods05]

Great news considering how "evil" middle aged white men are isn't it Mel?

Not evil. It's just that the bulk of the ignorant morons tend to be drawn from their ranks.

[stevoswan]

Actually I'm referring mainly to O'Loughlin who is the non-working figurehead of an indigenous company that is winning contracts that are ONLY open to companies that are owned by people who identify as indigenous. This company was specifically established as a result of government policies which promote this. It never existed prior.

This is a good thing and only causes 'division' when white people sook about it....

[stevoswan]

Mel never said it was ALL middle aged white men but by singling them out, he/she did is insinuating that middle aged white men are the problem.


It's the same as saying that the Aboriginal community are the problem for acts of drunken vandalism or that the Sudanese community are the problem for the home invasions which are occurring (largely correct but you can't say that).

It is YOU that needs to evolve. The silent majority is taking a stand against the bigotry that people like YOU have been displaying in recen years and were holding YOU accountable.

Ahh yes, the silent 'majority'......very debatable and possibly quite delusional. The 'silent' bit is just crap. Most of the letters and comments in the paper these days are from right wingers bemoaning anything left/respectful/empathetic/sensible and frankly, speaking through their selfish arses....the sooking never ends whether they're in government or not, whether an election has been just won or lost. The levels of paranoia and fear of what they don't or refuse to understand is gobsmacking. They just can't shut up! Hardly silent.....

[Mel_C]

* He justified the booing of Ablett (in contrast to Goodes) because of his tribunal history. He completely ignores the fact that Ablett is being booed because of his religious beliefs (yes that correct; the booing started immediately after that tweet).
* He claims that Goodes was only booed for pointing out the 13y.o. girl and ignores the fact that Goodes was booed before that because he started staging for free kicks in his later years.

I'm going to dispute the above 2 points.

I go to a lot of Geelong games and Ablett was booed before he liked that tweet. He was also being booed last year. In recent games the booing has increased since the head high incidents. I'm not saying that he also isn't being booed because of the tweet but you can't just say it is for the one reason.

With regards to the Goodes booing...yes there were times where he was booed sporadically for staging for frees and also during that period when he was sliding in with his legs. However, after he pointed out the 13 year old girl and then after being named Australian of the Year the booing was constant every time he touched or went near the ball. It was non stop.

[Bloods05]

Ahh yes, the silent 'majority'......very debatable and possibly quite delusional. The 'silent' bit is just crap. Most of the letters and comments in the paper these days are from right wingers bemoaning anything left/respectful/empathetic/sensible and frankly, speaking through their selfish arses....the sooking never ends whether they're in government or not, whether an election has been just won or lost. The levels of paranoia and fear of what they don't or refuse to understand is gobsmacking. They just can't shut up! Hardly silent.....

The term "silent majority" was coined by Spiro Agnew, the corrupt vice-president to the second-most corrupt president in US history. It was the product of a twisted mind, and its appeal to similarly twisted minds remains undiminished.

[Faunac8]

The term "silent majority" was coined by Spiro Agnew, the corrupt vice-president to the second-most corrupt president in US history. It was the product of a twisted mind, and its appeal to similarly twisted minds remains undiminished.

Ahh the silent majority I assume this is the same silent majority that our PM praised for his recent election win. The silent majority who chose the perception of short term jobs over the reality of climate change.
Being part of the silent majority doesn’t necessarily mean that you are part of something that is morally right and positive for the long term well being of the society you are a part of.
.

[Meg]

Thanks Stevo, great memories. Imagine what Adam would have been like bursting out of the middle under 6x6x6.

For those who haven’t seen the Goodes documentary, that iconic photo of Adam - being chaired off the ground arm raised, fist pumped, number 37 blazoned on the back of his jumper - is strongly featured.

[KSAS]

Caught a bit of Tony Armstrong being interviewed by Andy Maher on SEN this afternoon, expanding on his Roar article about Goodes being hounded out of the game. My summary isn't going to do it justice as Tony was very passionate & forthright. It is worth listening to, but not sure if it's available on podcast as I couldn't locate it on the SEN site.

Tony grew up in Adelaide as a Swans supporter with Goodes being his hero. He was thrilled as a lad when Goodes signed his Swans cap. Tony was awestruck when he came to us & got play to alongside the great man. These are the main points I got from Tony:

- Gets angry whenever people outside of any minority group passes judgement on that group like they know, when they really don't have any idea.

- When people are challenged to look into the mirror, they get angry and retailate if they don't like what they see.

- People need to look at the whole picture before they decide and react. In the case of Goodes calling out the 13yo girl for calling him an ape, people just reacted to the aftermath of the girl being led away by ground security and ignored the interview Goodes gave the following day where he passionately protected the young girl, which is largely forgotten about.

- People think Goodes AOY award speech was divisive when it was anything but, if they had bothered to listen / read it in its entirety rather than take someone like Andrew Bolt's version of it. People wrongly think Goodes was given the AOY award because of the 13yo girl incident.

- Has no objection to booing in footy, but when someone calls out it's racist in a particular situation people need to stop and realise if they continue to do so they are supporting racism no matter what they think their intentions are.

- So highly praising of how much a gentle and proud an indigenous man Goodes is, that many people just don't realise the extent the booing saga had wounded him. Thought Goodes was incredibly brave how he challenged/educated people on casual racism in such a passive manner.

- Being a elite runner, Tony was invited to enter the AFL umpiring ranks but is put off by the thought of a indigenous umpire paying a free kick against West Coast at a packed Optus Stadium and what he'll hear coming over the fence. Which is why he admires Goodes so much because that is nothing compared to what Goodes had copped.

Andy Maher was pretty much on par with everything Tony was saying and mentioned the predictable messages he was receiving during the course of the interview. He refused to read out/respond to any of them and challenged his audience to see the Final Quarter documentary when it's shown on free to air, whereby he'll happy to open the talkback lines for a week to discuss.

[Meg]

Thanks for great summary KSAS.

The point about Adam’s AOY speech being badly misrepresented is one that makes me angry also.

Here it is:

Adam Goodes - Australian of the Year 2014 Acceptance Speech - YouTube

[KSAS]

Thanks Meg. Andy Maher did mention that it's unbelievable some people today still find Adam's AOY speech as divisive! I'm guessing that view was being expressed in the predictable texts Andy was receiving during the course of that interview.

[barry]

This should shut Roy Masters up:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/shut-up-and-play-how-walker-is-being-given-the-goodes-treatment-20190613-p51xbo.html

[Bloods05]

This should shut Roy Masters up:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/shu...13-p51xbo.html

Excellent piece. The question about the conservative commentators' hypocrisy is particularly pertinent: why do they attack Goodes for speaking out about race, yet support Folau's right to say gays are going to hell? The answer is obvious - they don't like what Goodes was saying, but they're happy with what Folau is saying. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech.