The Final Quarter / The Australian Dream (AG documentaries) and related discussion

[dimelb]

Thanks for great summary KSAS.

The point about Adam’s AOY speech being badly misrepresented is one that makes me angry also.

Here it is:

Adam Goodes - Australian of the Year 2014 Acceptance Speech - YouTube

Thanks so much for putting this link up Meg. Highly appreciated.

It is noteworthy that the page tells us that comments have been disabled. When you look further you see that there were hundreds of comments before their disablement, distributed fairly accurately as 2/3 and 1/3. To quote an old favourite, I'd bet London to a brick on that the 1/3 is the reason why the site has disabled comment. It seems that the vitriol was at poisonous levels.

[Ludwig]

I just listened to a Tony Armstrong interview on SEN from yesterday and it came up in passing that Tony was asked if he wanted to become an umpire, and then the conversation moved on.

I then Googled to see just how many Aboriginal AFL umpires there were in the game, as I couldn't recall any off the top of my head, only to discover that there has never been an an Aboriginal AFL umpire and only 1, Glenn James, in the VFL (1977-1985). So there has not been a single Aboriginal umpire at top level AFL/VFL for the past 34 years.

For me, this illustrates just how embedded institutional racism is in Australia. I can understand from the perspectives of potential Aboriginal umpires, as well as the AFL, what an enormous problem this would be when (and I don't mean if) the Aboriginal umpire would be abused by a fan an how this would replay the same issues and arguments as with Adam Goodes.

This is but one example of the deep discrimination Indigenous Australians face in the normal course of life. It is so clearly evident here, because of the effective exclusion of Indigenous Australians from a job where there would certainly be numerous qualified individuals. And what bravery it would take for an Indigenous Australian to become an AFL umpire, and how unprepared and frightening it would be for the Gil McLaghlan's of the world to deal with the fallout.

We might ask ourselves how many other jobs and opportunities are not available to Indigenous Australians that simply go unnoticed by those who are not subjected to this kind of 'benign' racism.

[Bloods05]

I just listened to a Tony Armstrong interview on SEN from yesterday and it came up in passing that Tony was asked if he wanted to become an umpire, and then the conversation moved on.

I then Googled to see just how many Aboriginal AFL umpires there were in the game, as I couldn't recall any off the top of my head, only to discover that there has never been an an Aboriginal AFL umpire and only 1, Glenn James, in the VFL (1977-1985). So there has not been a single Aboriginal umpire at top level AFL/VFL for the past 34 years.

For me, this illustrates just how embedded institutional racism is in Australia. I can understand from the perspectives of potential Aboriginal umpires, as well as the AFL, what an enormous problem this would be when (and I don't mean if) the Aboriginal umpire would be abused by a fan an how this would replay the same issues and arguments as with Adam Goodes.

This is but one example of the deep discrimination Indigenous Australians face in the normal course of life. It is so clearly evident here, because of the effective exclusion of Indigenous Australians from a job where there would certainly be numerous qualified individuals. And what bravery it would take for an Indigenous Australian to become an AFL umpire, and how unprepared and frightening it would be for the Gil McLaghlan's of the world to deal with the fallout.

We might ask ourselves how many other jobs and opportunities are not available to Indigenous Australians that simply go unnoticed by those who are not subjected to this kind of 'benign' racism.

I'd be interested to know if Glenn James copped a lot of racist abuse. My memory of it is that he didn't, and that he was very well-regarded by players and spectators alike. But maybe my memory fails me.

Nevertheless, your point is well made. It's hard to believe that the arseclowns who gave Adam Goodes such a hard time would be more restrained with umpires, especially if any of them had the temerity to take a stand against racism.

[stevoswan]

I just listened to a Tony Armstrong interview on SEN from yesterday and it came up in passing that Tony was asked if he wanted to become an umpire, and then the conversation moved on.

I then Googled to see just how many Aboriginal AFL umpires there were in the game, as I couldn't recall any off the top of my head, only to discover that there has never been an an Aboriginal AFL umpire and only 1, Glenn James, in the VFL (1977-1985). So there has not been a single Aboriginal umpire at top level AFL/VFL for the past 34 years.

For me, this illustrates just how embedded institutional racism is in Australia. I can understand from the perspectives of potential Aboriginal umpires, as well as the AFL, what an enormous problem this would be when (and I don't mean if) the Aboriginal umpire would be abused by a fan an how this would replay the same issues and arguments as with Adam Goodes.

This is but one example of the deep discrimination Indigenous Australians face in the normal course of life. It is so clearly evident here, because of the effective exclusion of Indigenous Australians from a job where there would certainly be numerous qualified individuals. And what bravery it would take for an Indigenous Australian to become an AFL umpire, and how unprepared and frightening it would be for the Gil McLaghlan's of the world to deal with the fallout.

We might ask ourselves how many other jobs and opportunities are not available to Indigenous Australians that simply go unnoticed by those who are not subjected to this kind of 'benign' racism.

Great post.

I remember Glenn James well. He was considered one of the best umpires to ever umpire the game. To me, watching footy back then, he had absolute integrity.....if only we could say the same about today's hacks.

In regard to the abuse indigenous umpires would receive these days (IIRC, James didn't receive abuse/racist abuse, because he was such a damn good umpire).....well, if the AFL are now kicking people out of grounds for calling an umpire "a bald headed flog" or "a green maggot", then based on what Goodes received from fans in his final years, they would be evicting nearly half the crowd. I can understand it if indigenous sports people shy away from the prospect of umpiring....for exactly the same reason Goodes shied away from a GF send off.

[Blood Fever]

This should shut Roy Masters up:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/shu...13-p51xbo.html

One person's opinion doesn't equate to the torrent of booing and lack of condemnation from AFL. Like comparing a molehill to a mountain.

[stevoswan]

I guess this thread is the most appropriate thread to post this and while it's not directly related to 'cultural issues', I'm excited. I bought one of the Swans 'black swan' Indigenous Guernseys. The best looking footy jumper ever! They're on special at the moment in the Swans Shop ($75.00 + postage). Bargain!

https://shop.sydneyswans.com.au/footy-frenzy/sydney-swans-2019-mens-indigenous-guernsey-792

[Meg]

I came across this article from July 2015, written when Adam took time away from the game. Really worth revisiting in the context of the current discussion.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/sydneys-goodes-a-victim-of-workplace-bullying-says-lawyer-20150729-gin0wu.html

[KTigers]

I came across this article from July 2015, written when Adam took time away from the game. Really worth revisiting in the context of the current discussion.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/sydneys...29-gin0wu.html

He makes good points. Aside from the racist nature of the boo-ing against Goodsey, it does say something about footy
crowds (and society I guess) that the boo-ing of players for whatever reason is so entrenched. It's not like Australian AFL crowds
have an exclusive on this either.

[Sandridge]

I'd be interested to know if Glenn James copped a lot of racist abuse. My memory of it is that he didn't, and that he was very well-regarded by players and spectators alike. But maybe my memory fails me.

Nevertheless, your point is well made. It's hard to believe that the arseclowns who gave Adam Goodes such a hard time would be more restrained with umpires, especially if any of them had the temerity to take a stand against racism.

I don't recall Glenn James copping racial abuse either.

I have a mate who is a dyed-in-the-wool Melbourne supporter who hated Glenn James - not because of his skin colour - but because he thought James "had a set" against the Demons. Decades later, my mate met Glenn James and found that he was a great bloke who barracked for........ Melbourne! Perhaps, in a desire to not appear to be biased towards his own team, James went the other way and was extra hard on them!

[S.S. Bleeder]

I just listened to a Tony Armstrong interview on SEN from yesterday and it came up in passing that Tony was asked if he wanted to become an umpire, and then the conversation moved on.

I then Googled to see just how many Aboriginal AFL umpires there were in the game, as I couldn't recall any off the top of my head, only to discover that there has never been an an Aboriginal AFL umpire and only 1, Glenn James, in the VFL (1977-1985). So there has not been a single Aboriginal umpire at top level AFL/VFL for the past 34 years.

For me, this illustrates just how embedded institutional racism is in Australia. I can understand from the perspectives of potential Aboriginal umpires, as well as the AFL, what an enormous problem this would be when (and I don't mean if) the Aboriginal umpire would be abused by a fan an how this would replay the same issues and arguments as with Adam Goodes.

This is but one example of the deep discrimination Indigenous Australians face in the normal course of life. It is so clearly evident here, because of the effective exclusion of Indigenous Australians from a job where there would certainly be numerous qualified individuals. And what bravery it would take for an Indigenous Australian to become an AFL umpire, and how unprepared and frightening it would be for the Gil McLaghlan's of the world to deal with the fallout.

We might ask ourselves how many other jobs and opportunities are not available to Indigenous Australians that simply go unnoticed by those who are not subjected to this kind of 'benign' racism.

30+ pages of SJW self-loathing/white-loathing crap but drawing the conclusion that there has only been one umpire in the top level of AFL is the result of racism takes the cake. Many of you only need to look in the mirror if you want to identify a racist.

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So telling their readers what they think they want to hear, rather than writing with integrity. I find it hard to respect that, but that's just me.

That's what the ABC does. How is that any different?

[snajik]

30+ pages of SJW self-loathing/white-loathing crap but drawing the conclusion that there has only been one umpire in the top level of AFL is the result of racism takes the cake. Many of you only need to look in the mirror if you want to identify a racist.

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That's what the ABC does. How is that any different?

Oh dear. You really are a sad and deluded little man. Could I offer you a piece of flake to accompany that enormous chip you have on your shoulder?

[Bloods05]

30+ pages of SJW self-loathing/white-loathing crap but drawing the conclusion that there has only been one umpire in the top level of AFL is the result of racism takes the cake. Many of you only need to look in the mirror if you want to identify a racist.

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That's what the ABC does. How is that any different?

What is wrong with you?

[chammond]

S.S.Bleeder is behaving like an average Australian footy fan.

Surely that's the whole point of this debate?

[stevoswan]

That's what the ABC does. How is that any different?

To a dead set right winger, the ABC probably appears biased only because they tell both sides if the story, not just the 'right wing' point of view, a la Sky (and Fox in the US)....and they tell stories with 'empathy'.....you know, that quality that allows people to 'put themselves in someone else's shoes'. You should try it.....

It must piss them off that this is the case with our national broadcaster....."Why aren't they telling 'porky's' like Sky? They must be biased!"

FFS, get a broader view on life mate.....

[S.S. Bleeder]

My point proven.