G.F. Day Thread. Sydney V Western Bulldogs. MCG 2.30pm.

[KTigers]

I don't think the extremely lopsided (20 to 8) free kick count cost us the game yesterday as we lost by four goals,
but the 23 to 13 count & the 50M penalty Scully didn't get with two minutes to go definitely cost GWS
as they were only five points down when the siren went.

[Dosser]

I also don't subscribe to the whole conspiracy theory thing as I think umpires try to be impartial. My concern was that umpires don't live in a bubble. They would have had to spend the last couple of weeks absorbing the whole fairytale scenario and trying to not be seduced by it. Unfortunately, I think it may have subconsciously affected them and we saw the result. I also found it interesting that a lot of their frees were for high tackles. They seem to draw these well as they dropped their knees and ducked often. We only had Hewitt do it once.

[lwjoyner]

The bulldogs have been getting the run of umpires almost all year, remember the Crows game at Etihad even had Adelaide approach the AFL asking why the large difference.

[stellation]

I don't think the extremely lopsided (20 to 8) free kick count cost us the game yesterday as we lost by four goals,
but the 23 to 13 count & the 50M penalty Scully didn't get with two minutes to go definitely cost GWS
as they were only five points down when the siren went.

Agreed with the Giants- the missed 50 to Scully was bad, particularly because it was from a mark in the middle of the ground so all umpires would have had a pretty clear view.

For our game I find it hard to say if the frees really impacted on the final result- I get it was 4 goals, but the last 2 (maybe 3?) were from fairly open play where we left ourselves exposed when trying in desperation to score.

[grarmy]

There really should be a rule that heated , impulsive, off the cuff negative posting be delayed for a couple of days after a loss, to let emotions settle and a restoration of rational thought & expression.

Here is a considered rational view, one that does not days on which to mull. McGlynn is cooked. Tippett is an overpriced, over-rated forward that has not returned on the investment. Rohan gets stage fright or some other special occasion jitters. X is not the forward he is supposed to be.

A dill by any other name is still a dill.

[Sandridge]

The Bulldogs' fairy tale run saw them winning free kick counts of;
GF: 20-8
PF: 23-13
SF: 19-14
EF: 17-13
For an overall total of being in front 79-48. That seems kind of remarkable, particularly considering it includes noted "assume the other guys will get the calls" opponents of Eagles at home and Hawthorn.

I thought the umpiring was poor and did impact on the game (I thought it did against GWS the week before, too), but I don't think it's a conscious conspiracy. Either the Bulldogs are doing something right with making sure the umpires see everything, or perhaps the umpires are not doing a good job of avoiding being caught up in all the hoopla that the media bring.

Interesting to note that the Bulldogs did progressively better with the umpiring the more they advanced through the final series.

I sometimes watch Swans games but usually don't as I find it extremely stressful. I didn't watch yesterday. My sister and stepson went to the game, however, and both said that even though the umpires were atrocious, they felt that we didn't play well and that the better team on the day won. From reading the RWO posts on the game, I get the feeling that a lot of people agree with that. However, it's also obvious that we just did not get a fair go. Even websites like Fox Sports are highlighting the issue, questioning the lopsided free kick count with special emphasis on the Hannebery no-call. Would we have won with better treatment from the umpires? Who knows? Probably not, but maybe. It would be nice to know, however, that we were given a fair chance and that doesn't seem to have happened.

[Hotpotato]

Well The Grand Final Dinner at the Palladium's Crown
was very well umpired by Adam Spencer, our No 1 Ticket Holder.
He lifted the sombre frame of minds we were all in, emphasised what an amazing year The Swans had , with 7 debutants and so many players with under 50 games.
The food was excellent, the venue was terrific, and they had the best band who energised the whole place all night. The players turned up and stuck around.
We boogied till midnight, met some great new friends and had a blast.
It would have been sweeter but there are more distressing things to happen to you than your team losing a Grand Final .

[grarmy]

Winning is not the thing. It is the only thing.

[barry]

The Bulldogs' fairy tale run saw them winning free kick counts of;
GF: 20-8
PF: 23-13
SF: 19-14
EF: 17-13

If you count 50m as another penalty the GF is 23-9.

Also consider the EF in Perth where WC usually are favored. For the dogs to win the count by 5 is the equivalent of winning it by 15 anywhere else.
So id say the dogs got a 10 free kick advantage per final average.
No coincidence. They have discovered a technique where dropping the ball, slide tackles and Shepharding the man on the mark can be played without penalty. Then add ducking and dropping the knees.

Some people complain that GWS got a bit fiesty during the prelim, so would I.

[Markwebbos]

Sunday reflections:

1. Whatever the impact of the free kick count, history will record us as the losers. Time to move on.

2. I think there is a huge amount to take from a rebuilding year. The Doggies were the least experienced GF side, but the Swans were quite a bit younger than them. Yes we need to improve, but I think we have done amazingly to be in a GF with a very young team.

3. Now question is how do we improve? We definitely need more quicker players. Jones stands in the backline because he is so fast (see Rose went OK in the GF sprint). Aliir is going to add speed too vs Laidler, but you'd imagine we'd be trading and drafting with leg speed top of the list given the 2 teams that showed us up did so on the outside.

4. What isn't working? I'm not sold on Tippett as a ruckman. We always seem short of targets in F50, but that's also a product of the way we play. McGlynn, McVeigh have to go. Too early to make a call on Hewett, X etc. don't know about Rohan. He spent quite a while playing as goalkeeper in defence, so not entirely his fault. I thought Pearce Hanley would improve us if we could afford him

[aardvark]

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I was surprised Mitch was so high up. I thought he was very quiet in the second half.

[Blue Sun]

Agreed with the Giants- the missed 50 to Scully was bad, particularly because it was from a mark in the middle of the ground so all umpires would have had a pretty clear view.

For our game I find it hard to say if the frees really impacted on the final result- I get it was 4 goals, but the last 2 (maybe 3?) were from fairly open play where we left ourselves exposed when trying in desperation to score.

I understand what you're saying, but you don't fully understand the effect of such a lopsided free kick count. When the umpires award 2.5x the free kicks to the opposition over the course of a match, it really does have a massive influence. How many Sydney scoring shots would have been generated had the umpires been fair? And on the flip side, how many less scoring shots would the Bulldogs have had? Not only that, free kicks swing the momentum, our boys were no doubt disheartened by the unfairness of it all. They gave everything they had, just like the opposition, but they were penalised for it and the Bulldogs rewarded.

The Swans were well and truly in the match with 5-6 minutes left and were only down by a point or so, had the umpiring been even, we would all be celebrating right now and rapt with how amazing our team played (we may ourselves been up by 3 or 4 kicks).

Oh, and some food for thought: for every 2 free kicks the Swans received, the Bulldogs received a 50m penalty. Hows that for a damning stat? In a Grand Final, no less.

Could you imagine the Melbourne media had the Doggies been cheated like we were yesterday? They'd be out for blood.

[Swannette]

Well The Grand Final Dinner at the Palladium's Crown
was very well umpired by Adam Spencer, our No 1 Ticket Holder.
He lifted the sombre frame of minds we were all in, emphasised what an amazing year The Swans had , with 7 debutants and so many players with under 50 games.
The food was excellent, the venue was terrific, and they had the best band who energised the whole place all night. The players turned up and stuck around.
We boogied till midnight, met some great new friends and had a blast.
It would have been sweeter but there are more distressing things to happen to you than your team losing a Grand Final .

Probably bumped into you on the dance floor HP! Agree on Spencer - did a great job. We were determined to enjoy ourselves in spite of the loss and it turned out to be a great tonic - as dancing and having fun usually is. Popcorn is the unassuming name of that great little band, they were a blast.

[mcs]

Could you imagine the Melbourne media had the Doggies been cheated like we were yesterday? They'd be out for blood.

I watched offsiders this morning where while they noted (in amongst a full blown circle jerk) that the swans were dudded by the umpiring, they also said it didnt change the result. Had it been the other way round in terms of frees and the result yesterday, no doubt that is not the conclusion that would have been reached.

We did amazingly well yesterday to stay in the contest as long as we did, when clearly we were getting none of the rub of the green. They simply had too much for us late and deserved their win, but i dont for a second subscribe to the theory that the umpiring wasnt influential on the result.

Its all hypothetical, but with an evenish free kick at 3/4 time, as one would expect in such a tight game, i do feel it would of been a very different looking scoreboard.

Irrespective of yesterday, i still find it incredible that umpires in the afl are not fully professional. But then integrity is not what the afl is about - just $$$, headlines and fairytales.

[mcs]

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I was surprised Mitch was so high up. I thought he was very quiet in the second half.

Gee that is damning on our forward - just 2 goals from our 'nominal' forward line (i know our delivery sucked into there and buddy wasnt 100%). For alll the improvements this year, it failed miserably on the day that counted

Oh and still i reckon jpk should have won the norm smith. Without him we would of been flogged.