2017 trading, drafting, list management

[Mr Magoo]

So how does academy player selection work in the rookie draft (if we dont take them in the preseason draft)

[Ludwig]

So how does academy player selection work in the rookie draft (if we don't take them in the preseason draft)

Any academy player not taken in the ND can be prelisted as a Cat B rookie. We can also prelist players from GWS if they are not taken by GWS as Cat B rookies (Harry Cunningham, Sam Fisher) and we also have access to non-drafted NSW zone players like Sam Murray, but I'm not sure how that works. He may have been in the GWS zone and not taken by them.

[Ludwig]

You can see the trend for how clubs will list manage ruckmen. St Kilda have gone the way of 2 on the main list plus a rookie.

From STK website:

St Kilda can confirm the following list changes ahead of the 2017 AFL Draft.

American-born ruckman Jason Holmes has been informed he will not be offered a new contract for 2018.

Fellow ruckman Lewis Pierce has also been delisted, however, the Saints have committed to re-drafting the 22-year-old in the 2017 Rookie Draft.

Both Holmes and Pierce struggled for opportunity this season with Billy Longer preferred as the number 1 ruck option and Tom Hickey the next in line

We might evolve to rotating 3 mobile KPPs through the ruck. For the Swans we might see something like Reid, Aliir and Toby Pink as such a trio. All are mobile and can play in the ruck and both in the forward and defensive lines. Certainly dual position players like Darcy Cameron will be part of the picture. It's another reason I like tall utilities, as it gives the team more flexibility. It's like having a built in Plan B by just rotating the tall utilities to different positions if things aren't going well during the game.

[Billericay]

You can see the trend for how clubs will list manage ruckmen. St Kilda have gone the way of 2 on the main list plus a rookie.

John Longmire bucking the trend. You can never have too many really slow tall players that can't take a mark.

[Flying South]

It's another reason I like tall utilities, as it gives the team more flexibility. It's like having a built in Plan B by just rotating the tall utilities to different positions if things aren't going well during the game.

Yeah we saw how that plan went against Geelong when Horse moved Reid and Rohan back 'when things werent going well'. We were left with a non-functioning forward line that was completely out numbered at the contests. I was with that flexible plan last year, playing three tall forwards along with the ruckman. But I'm not convinced it stacks up. Balance at either end of the field is the key. Talls,
mediums and smalls. Strength and pace. If your worried about your defence not hilding up, is moving forwards back to help out really the answer. Play an extra defender on the bench if you have to. But no gameplan will work if you get smashed in the midfield. I'm not sure i share your view that our midfield has such depth and quality. Big defeats in pressure games in recent seasons has me asking if our midfield is as deep as we think.

[Ludwig]

Yeah we saw how that plan went against Geelong when Horse moved Reid and Rohan back 'when things werent going well'. We were left with a non-functioning forward line that was completely out numbered at the contests. I was with that flexible plan last year, playing three tall forwards along with the ruckman. But I'm not convinced it stacks up. Balance at either end of the field is the key. Talls,
mediums and smalls. Strength and pace. If your worried about your defence not hilding up, is moving forwards back to help out really the answer. Play an extra defender on the bench if you have to. But no gameplan will work if you get smashed in the midfield. I'm not sure i share your view that our midfield has such depth and quality. Big defeats in pressure games in recent seasons has me asking if our midfield is as deep as we think.

That was not a plan B, nor any sort of rotation. It was a move of desperation because by leaving Melican out of the side we were undermanned in defence. We further made the mistake of not playing Aliir as a 3rd tall during the season, which would have given us the best setup. Then we could have had a rotational plan B, like swapping Reid and Aliir.

So I'm really agreeing with you that we need balance in the side. You don't necessarily need a tall forward line to win. There are lots of paths to goal. But playing 3 tall defenders is best if at least 2 are mobile. When the ball is flying into the defensive 50 the extra height helps and it's not as easy for the opposition to get size mismatches.

[chalbilto]

Sorry Ludwig, but you have been banging on about not playing Aliir but obviously Horse and the coaching staff were not totally happy with playing him. As it turned out Melican deservedly so, took his place and Aliir never earned his spot back last season. I am not an expert, leave that to Horse and co, but obviously Aliir didn't warrant his spot due to various factors, and I only speculate, being a total outsider, that this may have included attitude, team structure balance, lack of tackling, lack of pressure etc, etc. I just don't know. I hope that he recaptures the form he showed in 2016 and has a great pre-season and becomes the player we all want.

[Ludwig]

I've been open about my disagreement with Longmire on our defensive structure. There should be room for both Melican and Aliir and when Reg retires, perhaps Maibaum will come into the side. Harley has been unequivocal in his defence of Aliir regarding attitude and his importance to the team long term. When a player misses a large portion of the pre-season due to injury it's often hard to find one's best form. I think it's as simple as that. He also had a knee injury mid-season which didn't help. We used to play 3 tall defenders, but we went down to only 1 in our finals loss to Geelong. One ruckman, 2 tall forwards and 3 tall defenders has been my preferred structure for several years and it's clearly at odds with the preferences of the coaching panel. We will see if anything changes next season.

[MattW]

That was not a plan B, nor any sort of rotation. It was a move of desperation because by leaving Melican out of the side we were undermanned in defence. We further made the mistake of not playing Aliir as a 3rd tall during the season, which would have given us the best setup. Then we could have had a rotational plan B, like swapping Reid and Aliir.

So I'm really agreeing with you that we need balance in the side. You don't necessarily need a tall forward line to win. There are lots of paths to goal. But playing 3 tall defenders is best if at least 2 are mobile. When the ball is flying into the defensive 50 the extra height helps and it's not as easy for the opposition to get size mismatches.

It was such an obvious possibility that Reid (at least) would need to go back to help that it must have been plan b. We were discussing the probability of it on here in the week leading up to the game. I agree with Flying South that it was a very poor plan b.

Blakey suggested at the BSM that Melican was injured for the Geelong semi, which is the only way I can may sense of it. Even if that was the case, Aliir should have played. We got away with it against Essendon because we smashed them in the centre, but even then we looked vulnerable when they did get it in. It was arrogant or naive to think we could get away with it against Geelong on the MCG and I am sure all of us (and maybe the players) felt sickly dread when Dangerfield dominated Rampe in that first contest.

Anyway, I've banged on about the Melican thing enough. I won't do it again.

[Ludwig]

Melican was named as an emergency, so I don't think he was injured.

[S.S. Bleeder]

Who have we lost to go home factor recently?

In fact who was the last go homer? Maybe it's an afternoon on very good Shiraz that has my brain not remembering!

Tom Mitchell (had we been in Melbourne he may have been satisfied with less money) and Josh Dunkley (had we been in Melbourne he would have nominated us).

[707]

Tom Mitchell (had we been in Melbourne he may have been satisfied with less money) and Josh Dunkley (had we been in Melbourne he would have nominated us).

Mitchell was about money, pure and simple, no go home factor, we chose to let him go, the same way we did with Mummy, we couldn't afford what they wanted and what they quite rightly valued themselves at.

Josh Dunkley is an interesting nomination, go home without getting here! :-)

So I'll pose the question again, who was the last player we lost to homesickness/go home for family?

[caj23]

Mitchell was about money, pure and simple, no go home factor, we chose to let him go, the same way we did with Mummy, we couldn't afford what they wanted and what they quite rightly valued themselves at.

Josh Dunkley is an interesting nomination, go home without getting here! :-)

So I'll pose the question again, who was the last player we lost to homesickness/go home for family?

Jetta is the obvious one, although Membrey is possibly another one (combined with more opportunity)

[Markwebbos]

I do remember when Darren Jolly wanted to go home, for family reasons, Paul Roos was extremely accommodating.

Was ROK wanting to go home or looking for an excuse to play for Hawthorn?

[Markwebbos]

I see Sam Murray has been given the number 9 at Collingwood, previously worn by Jesse White. Hmmmmm. I wonder how he feels about that?