U18 Div 2 Championships

[Boddo]

Gws until recently had about 15 guys max from Sydney in their under 17s academy

One picked was Jeremy finlayson

Awesome kick

Very lazy

Ran about a 12min plus 3km when 85kg max

The boys in the Riverina rarely came to Sydney

Do you think the boys from the Kimberly will come to Perth to be involved in Freo's academy?
Could you please provide a link to back up your claim of 15 boys from Sydney? Also considering that the academy starts from 12 you would note that only a very small percentage would be part of their U17's squad.

[Mug Punter]

All this whining about GWS not investing in Western Sydney juniors seems to be some based on some romantic view of the world.
Facts are:
- Western Sydney is the least AFL region in Australia, and hasnt produced many AFL footballers. So thinking that will suddenly change is foolish.
- GWS is a business, yet to turn a profit, and so every cent must be spent as effectively as possible. Hence the investment in regional NSW where AFL is stronger.
- They have access to low draft picks continually by turning over their list, and so fringe locals in the 30-50th pick range is a very low priority.
- Their number one goal is achieve sustainability as a club. They need local fans, not local players.

However they have cracked 20,000 members as of today, and the stagnation in growth of crowds this year is a reflection of the reduction in number of free memberships and tickets given away. I would have expected them to get higher crowds, and I'm pretty sure the AFL are too, but all other indicators are heading in the right direction.
The jury is still out as to whether the showgrounds is a viable location. It doesnt have that community feel.

It's not whining barry. it's a legitimate concern for the following reasons

* To be sustainable GWS needs to have a local engagement and getting local kids is the best way to do that
* As a fan of THE GAME I'd like to see the benefits from GWS extend away from the AFL Balance Sheet and have some positive impact on the game at a grassroots level in Sydney. If you had any interest in the local comp you'd know the game is in a parlous state in Western Sydney and whilst that is ultimately the AFLs responsibility the GWS Academy can be a big part of that
* From an AFL perspective to keep the quality of the comp with 100 new players required for the new teams then we need to expand the player pool and attract players from non traditional backgrounds and areas like western Sydney

All evidence is that they barely can be bothered with genuinely developing western Sydney and that is a genuine concern,

As regards to your comment re spending every cent as effectively as possible, that is laughable when you consider their spend on Israel Falou and the fact they spent money on the MANLY club rather than their own area

And finally, where do you suggest they play instead of the Showground?

[wedge.maverick]

Gws until recently had about 15 guys max from Sydney in their under 17s academy

One picked was Jeremy finlayson

Awesome kick

Very lazy

Ran about a 12min plus 3km when 85kg max

The boys in the Riverina rarely came to Sydney

Finlayson was relocated to Sydney by GWS from Culcairn in the Riverina. Harrison MacReadie was as well and they chose not to take him.

In regards to Albury only having 1 in the U16s. Plenty trialled and only 1 selected. That 1 just happen's to be the Albury Mayor's son.
I think that says more about the time and effort or lack of it GWS have been putting in down on the Border and Riverina over the past few years. The talent has dropped off but plenty of kids strutting around down here wearing their GWS Academy merch. The numbers are there but not much quality.

[barry]

It's simply not in GWS's financial interest to invest in academies on West Sydney. They have higher priorities.

Swans didn't establish an academy system until well established in Sydney.

[barracuda]

It's simply not in GWS's financial interest to invest in academies on West Sydney. They have higher priorities.

Swans didn't establish an academy system until well established in Sydney.

Maybe Barry, but getting hold of a Heeney, Mills or Blakely every couple of years is very significant. Over a 10 year period that could provide a suite of high draft picks. This is especially important if the club is high up on the ladder every year.

My feeling is that GWS will do a review of how it's academy functions with a view to significantly improving the yield, rather than letting it drop away. I think it is useful to remember that the actual quality of talent in the academies has only been revealed in the last few months via the various championships. Before that the Rams program always operated on the perception that GWS talent was better.

I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Smith was targeted by GWS for their Academy or for some of the other Academies because he is demonstrating that he is the best at setting up and running academies in the country.

In conclusion I think think the GWS just have not run their academy very well over the last few years and it is starting to show.

[wolftone57]

It's not whining barry. it's a legitimate concern for the following reasons

* To be sustainable GWS needs to have a local engagement and getting local kids is the best way to do that
* As a fan of THE GAME I'd like to see the benefits from GWS extend away from the AFL Balance Sheet and have some positive impact on the game at a grassroots level in Sydney. If you had any interest in the local comp you'd know the game is in a parlous state in Western Sydney and whilst that is ultimately the AFLs responsibility the GWS Academy can be a big part of that
* From an AFL perspective to keep the quality of the comp with 100 new players required for the new teams then we need to expand the player pool and attract players from non traditional backgrounds and areas like western Sydney

All evidence is that they barely can be bothered with genuinely developing western Sydney and that is a genuine concern,

As regards to your comment re spending every cent as effectively as possible, that is laughable when you consider their spend on Israel Falou and the fact they spent money on the MANLY club rather than their own area

And finally, where do you suggest they play instead of the Showground?

They told Western Sydney they weren't serious when they deserted Blacktown and moved everything into Homebush Bay, the inner west not the West. They have cut their nose to spite their face. GWS has lost Western Sydney forever. Whether they play at the Showgrounds or not doesn't matter they should have built their base at Blacktown. That doesn't mean the players have to live there. Most don't live at Homebush any more either. They live in the Eastern Suburbs or Balmain Peninsula. There are several players living not far from me on the Peninsula or Iron Cove bay.

As to the U18 Championships we were the best team by far, winning all 5 matches. two of them by less than a goal. Out Academy young blokes are pretty good apparently.

[Mug Punter]

They told Western Sydney they weren't serious when they deserted Blacktown and moved everything into Homebush Bay, the inner west not the West. They have cut their nose to spite their face. GWS has lost Western Sydney forever. Whether they play at the Showgrounds or not doesn't matter they should have built their base at Blacktown. That doesn't mean the players have to live there. Most don't live at Homebush any more either. They live in the Eastern Suburbs or Balmain Peninsula. There are several players living not far from me on the Peninsula or Iron Cove bay.

As to the U18 Championships we were the best team by far, winning all 5 matches. two of them by less than a goal. Out Academy young blokes are pretty good apparently.

Whilst I agree with you I do think GWS made a pragmatic business decision.

If you think their crowds out there are poor (true they are growing) then I think they would have never got anywhere near that with a ground deep out Blacktown way with poor transport links. And I think a lot of their customers (I refuse to use the term fans for any of the window-lickers in their G gear) are more inner west anyway.

I also find it hard to see how they could get a better ground than Spotless, for mine it is the right size for them and it has that intimate atmosphere you want. It cost the state coffers enough to upgrade what was there let along build a new stadium from scratch in Blacktown.

Having said that, the BISP set up is a very good one from a community based perspective and it is a fantastic facility for SFL Finals, NEAFL, Swans and GWS Academy games, Rep games etc. PLus it has other ground there too. It's a welcome addition to the local AFL infrastructure.

Just for the general information for those who think that the West has no juniors, the following clubs fall into the GWS zone

* Bankstown Bullsharks
* Baulkham Hills Hawks
* Blacktown City Suns
* Blue Mountains Kangaroos
* Camden Blues
* Campbelltown Swans
* Emu Park/Glenmore Lions
* Greystanes Goannas
* Hawkesbury Saints
* Hills Lions
* Ingleburn Magpies
* Katoomba Wolves
* Kellyville Magpies
* Liverpool Eagles
* Penrith Giants
* South Campbelltown
* South West Tigers
* St Clair Crows
* Wollondilly Redbacks

There's quite a bit to work with there but my feedback from the guys in club land is that they get very very little practical assistance from GWS. If they were trying locally I think we'd all cut them some slack as we all know it is a tough market. All the evidence points to a complete lack of progress at the GWS side and huge progress on ours

Short term success is great but long term GWS will live or die by their community engagement with the local footy community. I'd love to see a derby in 10 years time where both us and GWS have at least 10 local boys in each side, until that happens I'll continue to be sceptical about GWS

[Mug Punter]

Further to my last post, please find amended the list for the number of teams each club fields from U10 - 17

* Bankstown Bullsharks - 1
* Baulkham Hills Hawks - 10
* Blacktown City Suns - 4
* Blue Mountains Kangaroos - 4
* Camden Blues - 11
* Campbelltown Swans - 5
* Emu Park/Glenmore Lions - 9
* Greystanes Goannas - 5
* Hawkesbury Saints - 5
* Ingleburn Magpies - 4
* Kellyville Magpies - 7
* Liverpool Eagles - 1
* Penrith Giants - 4
* South Campbelltown - 3
* South West Tigers - 7
* St Clair Crows - 5
* Wollondilly Redbacks - 4

89 junior sides and growing, all they need now is for GWS to do their bit

[barry]

Further to my last post, please find amended the list for the number of teams each club fields from U10 - 17

* Bankstown Bullsharks - 1
* Baulkham Hills Hawks - 10
* Blacktown City Suns - 4
* Blue Mountains Kangaroos - 4
* Camden Blues - 11
* Campbelltown Swans - 5
* Emu Park/Glenmore Lions - 9
* Greystanes Goannas - 5
* Hawkesbury Saints - 5
* Ingleburn Magpies - 4
* Kellyville Magpies - 7
* Liverpool Eagles - 1
* Penrith Giants - 4
* South Campbelltown - 3
* South West Tigers - 7
* St Clair Crows - 5
* Wollondilly Redbacks - 4

89 junior sides and growing, all they need now is for GWS to do their bit

It's up to the AFL to grow the game. Club priority is winning a flag.

[liz]

It's up to the AFL to grow the game. Club priority is winning a flag.

It's up to the clubs too, especially the four "frontier" clubs. The two new clubs were created with the express purpose of growing the game in NSW and Queensland, and that's why the AFL continues to pump so much money into them. The rationale for existence of the Swans and Lions is a bit more chequered, but both clubs still need to contribute to growing the game in their markets.

Furthermore, the academy system was set up precisely to grow the numbers playing the game and, eventually, to increase the pool of elite talent available at AFL level. That the AFL went down this path screams of how badly they'd failed to create effective talent development pathways in NSW and Queensland, and the debate rages on about whether these academies should be tied to the clubs or run by the AFL. But for now, they are run by the clubs and, by agreeing to participate and benefit from the (albeit now watered down) draft concessions, the four clubs agreed to invest time, know-how and money into creating opportunities for young boys (and now girls) to play the game to a higher level.

[Ludwig]

the four "frontier" clubs.

[Mug Punter]

It's up to the clubs too, especially the four "frontier" clubs. The two new clubs were created with the express purpose of growing the game in NSW and Queensland, and that's why the AFL continues to pump so much money into them. The rationale for existence of the Swans and Lions is a bit more chequered, but both clubs still need to contribute to growing the game in their markets.

Furthermore, the academy system was set up precisely to grow the numbers playing the game and, eventually, to increase the pool of elite talent available at AFL level. That the AFL went down this path screams of how badly they'd failed to create effective talent development pathways in NSW and Queensland, and the debate rages on about whether these academies should be tied to the clubs or run by the AFL. But for now, they are run by the clubs and, by agreeing to participate and benefit from the (albeit now watered down) draft concessions, the four clubs agreed to invest time, know-how and money into creating opportunities for young boys (and now girls) to play the game to a higher level.

Correct.

[barry]

The academies were set up by the swans (mainly) as a way to get local players on the list to minimise the go home factor and as a way to source talent outside the draft.

Always back self interest.

- - - Updated - - -

.. An expensive luxury a successful, well established club can afford.

[dejavoodoo44]

Nice picture of the linebackers, for the Superbowl winning 1976 Oakland Raiders.

[barracuda]

I got a chance to watch 8 of the Academy players in the Manly v Pennant Hills prems game on the weekend. The players were Luke Scrivanic, Josh Stern, Nick Eynaud, Mick Carrol for Penno, and Jarrod Osborne, Sam Wicks, Mitchell Rogers and Evan Kaporis.

Prems is always a good test for young players as they get to play against some big bodies, some of whom can be very aggressive. It is a good test of their courage in very a congested physical environment.

Scrivanic and Stern played forward and linked up for some pretty good play. They probably got around 10-12 disposals each, but not too many tackles as they played mainly outside. I like Scrivanic, he positions himself quite well and can take a mark.

Eynaud and Carroll were quiet. Eynaud is actually a very good player, but is continually hampered with back problems. Carroll, who was selected for the allies struggled against the bigger bodies. He looked slow and was well held.

For Manly Jarrod Osborne (who is a 19 year old) looked well balanced in traffic, and his disposal was thoughtful and precise. He was Manly's third best player and had around 20 disposals and 6 or 7 tackles. Osborne is also in the Allies squad. He has played a bit of NEAFL but based on the stats has yet to make an impression. He is very strong and athletic and is an interesting prospect.

Sam Wicks was named best on ground with a 30+ disposal performance. The majority of disposals were contested possessions. He also had more than 10 tackles for the game. This kid showed exceptional work rate, and attack on the ball. He has also played NEAFL recently kicking 3 goals in the swans last game, off the back of a 2 goal game against Canberra. He was not selected in Allies which looks like an oversight. In the last quarter he was flattened with a sickening head high shirtfront. To his credit he got back into the game and kept going. If guts is important then this guy has it.

Mitchell Rogers played in the backline. He showed great judgement and body positioning against tall forwards. He was very rarely beaten, and in a quiet way made a huge difference to the game by repelling so many incoming balls. He either outmarks his opponent or brings the ball to ground, gathers it and handballs out. He was also overlooked for Allies and based on what I saw should have got in ahead of Carroll.

Evan Kaporis is a small mid, who got busy working with the rest of the team. He had around 10 or so possessions and a couple of tackles.

In summary Osborne, Wicks and Rogers looked like they have definitely transitioned to prems level making significant and confident contributions to the game. The other guys were a bit more tentative and outside but showed plenty of talent, and with more games will grow in confidence.