2018 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Ludwig]

The criteria to use in deciding which marginal players should be delisted is that players who have already demonstrated, or have had enough time to demonstrate, that they are not good enough to be in the best 22 of a top 4 team should be delisted before those who have yet to show decisively if they are in that category.

Rose and Foote, both drafted in 2014, haven't been nearly as good as Robinson, Marsh and Towers at senior level, but they are younger and still improving. My feeling too is that neither will be make it at AFL level, but I'm less certain about that than with their teammates who have been in the system 2 years longer.

[Ludwig]

There's been a lot of negativity about the Swans coming from the 'On The Couch' group, especially coming from Tom Morris. He seems fairly sure that Darcy Moore is coming to the Swans. These shows thrive on negativity. Nevertheless, Tom Harley is really under the gun to have a good outcome from this trade period. He will be marked very harshly if things don't go well next year as a result from this year's post season action.

[Aprilbr]

Saints Coach spoke very confidently tonight on 360 about Hannebery going to them. Very confident that they can get Hanners back to his best with good medical assistance. This tells me that the deal will be done at a reasonable price.


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[Muttley]

Is anyone else starting to think we are after Dylan Shiel?

[Markwebbos]

Ludwig has very high hopes.

I’m not convinced he’s the one (1) I think it’s not our style to pay that sort of money to a midfielder (2) my gut says he wouldn’t leave GWS to stay in Sydney at the Swans (3) My gut says he’s not the sort of player the Swans would go after.

I’d be very happy to be proved wrong though.

[ISIBIDBI]

I was watching that as well. He also said the McCartin was off the table. It only makes sense that St Kilda would have been thoroughly satisfied about his fitness before getting to the point of making such a big offer to him, something I've pointed out several times in this thread. And we should use this as the basis for the kind of deal we get on the trade. The rumours about the deal involving the Saints' 2nd round pick for 2019 may well be their offer. I would think that the information leaks are coming from the St. Kilda camp, so the rumours are from selected sources. It doesn't mean it won't be for their 2nd round pick, but that doesn't seem close to fair compensation for an elite player under contract, and 800 kpa is an elite player. The AFL reported that there were 29 players earning over 800k in 2017, which is pretty small group.

An interesting comparison is the Bryce Gibbs trade last year. Gibbs is 2 years older than Hanners, so 1 year older at the time of trade. Both players wanted to 'go home'. They've been similar players in terms of overall performance and if anything Hanners would have been slightly better, perhaps because of playing for a much better team. The Gibbs trade involved Carlton getting picks 10 and 16 from Adelaide, and there were a bunch of other pick swaps that favoured Adelaide. In the end, the trade would be rated at around a pick 4 (2000 points). If I were Tom Harley, this would be my starting position and part of my arguments in support of asking for pick 4.

It's time for Harley to show that he's a real Ludite, not just a mere Luddite.

I definitely agree that starting point for us should be a straight swap for pick 4, but I think that both us and the Saints know that is never going to happen. The problem with your Gibbs comparison is that he was in career best form for the two seasons before he was traded, whilst Hanners has been trending downhill significantly - put it down to injuries/lack of pre-season etc. But realistically the Gibbs comparison is a bit off the mark in terms of the form displayed by both players leading up to the trade. However certainly Hanners is worth more than simply a future second round pick, the Hanners + 13 for Pick 4, while seemingly equivalent by the AFL Points system to an early second round pick, seems to be worth a lot more especially considering Pick 4 could land us a member of the "Super 7", before Blakey attracts a bid.

[Ludwig]

Ludwig has very high hopes.

I’m not convinced he’s the one (1) I think it’s not our style to pay that sort of money to a midfielder (2) my gut says he wouldn’t leave GWS to stay in Sydney at the Swans (3) My gut says he’s not the sort of player the Swans would go after.

I’d be very happy to be proved wrong though.

I think Shiel is the sort of player that could help the Swans a lot, but I don't expect him to be coming to us for the reasons you noted. I did hear on one report, however, that he wanted to stay in Sydney. So my only hope is that the report is true, the Giants need to get him off their payroll and he's willing to come to the Swans for less, let's say 800-900 kpa, just to stay in Sydney and be with a top club. That's a lot of 'ifs', so I don't expect it to happen.

With Hanners leaving, it opens the possibility of landing a big name player and there's something in the air that makes me feel that we have someone in mind, like a Gaff or Shiel, but maybe it's just Darcy Moore. If not for the injury concerns, I wouldn't be against Moore coming to the Swans. Playing Moore and Reid in the same forward line is possible if Franklin plays on the wing, which I think could work out well. All 3 are very athletic and not your typical KPF.

[KSAS]

There's been a lot of negativity about the Swans coming from the 'On The Couch' group, especially coming from Tom Morris. He seems fairly sure that Darcy Moore is coming to the Swans. These shows thrive on negativity. Nevertheless, Tom Harley is really under the gun to have a good outcome from this trade period. He will be marked very harshly if things don't go well next year as a result from this year's post season action.

Definite Swans negativity coming from OTC. Just watched replay of tonight's show & Tom Morris is still going on about supposed unrest Luke Parker has with the Swans. Tom reckons Luke has told friends he's not happy with the transition of the club in last few years???????? But then admitted Luke isn't going anywhere this trade period. Luke is contracted till end of 2021 which I expect club will make him honour. If Luke is feeling restless, every chance that could change next year if we recruit & perform well.

Then there is Gary Lyon who doesn't rate our list & thinks we'll be in trouble next year. We've heard that line so many times last few decades to point I now feel uncomfortable if no one in the media writes us off!

[CureTheSane]

I think we could do with some selfish players. Ones that are not scared to have a shot at goal like Davis was. Way too many times we look to pass off and STUFF UP the pass and turn it over.

100%
Seems every game day thread I am posting "why didn't he have a shot?"
Either conservative team instructions or a collective lack of confidence/fear of missing.

[YvonneH]

100%
Seems every game day thread I am posting "why didn't he have a shot?"
Either conservative team instructions or a collective lack of confidence/fear of missing.

Remember Olly Florent and that running goal (that he just made)? Haven't seen that again have we?
Maybe being coached out of him.
Zac Jones sometimes tries for the improbable and we complain about that also "why didn't he pass it off?"
As supporters it would seems we are very hard to please.

[caj23]

Remember Olly Florent and that running goal (that he just made)? Haven't seen that again have we?
Maybe being coached out of him.
Zac Jones sometimes tries for the improbable and we complain about that also "why didn't he pass it off?"
As supporters it would seems we are very hard to please.

What about Allir?

In 2016 he would rebound directly through the middle which was a big part of our success that year. It's pretty clear that has been coached out of him, how often did he just kick down the line this season.

I'm pretty sure the sentiment from supporters is that we'd rather see the players attempt something and not pull it off, rather than just kick down the line

[Markwebbos]

I think Shiel is the sort of player that could help the Swans a lot, but I don't expect him to be coming to us for the reasons you noted. I did hear on one report, however, that he wanted to stay in Sydney. So my only hope is that the report is true, the Giants need to get him off their payroll and he's willing to come to the Swans for less, let's say 800-900 kpa, just to stay in Sydney and be with a top club. That's a lot of 'ifs', so I don't expect it to happen.

With Hanners leaving, it opens the possibility of landing a big name player and there's something in the air that makes me feel that we have someone in mind, like a Gaff or Shiel, but maybe it's just Darcy Moore. If not for the injury concerns, I wouldn't be against Moore coming to the Swans. Playing Moore and Reid in the same forward line is possible if Franklin plays on the wing, which I think could work out well. All 3 are very athletic and not your typical KPF.

My belief is the Hanners departure is part of a deliberate list refresh by the Swans. Therefore they have at least one mature midfielder lined up to replace him. But the wait to find out who and see it all unfold is killing me.

[707]

Remember Olly Florent and that running goal (that he just made)? Haven't seen that again have we?
Maybe being coached out of him.
Zac Jones sometimes tries for the improbable and we complain about that also "why didn't he pass it off?"
As supporters it would seems we are very hard to please.

How about Jones starts in the middle, then trying for the impossible is at least in our forward half.

[Markwebbos]

Definite Swans negativity coming from OTC. Just watched replay of tonight's show & Tom Morris is still going on about supposed unrest Luke Parker has with the Swans. Tom reckons Luke has told friends he's not happy with the transition of the club in last few years???????? But then admitted Luke isn't going anywhere this trade period. Luke is contracted till end of 2021 which I expect club will make him honour. If Luke is feeling restless, every chance that could change next year if we recruit & perform well.

Then there is Gary Lyon who doesn't rate our list & thinks we'll be in trouble next year. We've heard that line so many times last few decades to point I now feel uncomfortable if no one in the media writes us off!

Given the level of unrest on RWO, I could well imagine there would be unrest among the players. This would give credence to Damian Barratt’s Article last week.

I would assume if Parker really is going around telling people how upset he is that steps will need to be taken to address his concerns.

Could we see more change in the coaching ranks in the offseason?

[AnnieH]

Has anyone else wondered if we have an adequate strength and conditioning program?

I am not sure we get this right. Players like Robinson, Towers, Marsh and Rose - who have been around the club for some time - do not seem to have developed their physiques. Some other clubs seem to prioritise this more.

It would be nice to have some of our fringe players develop some muscle mass and core strength to at least stand up in the contest and not get pushed around by the opposition when they come in to our senior team.

Send them running up and down the sand dunes at Kurnell over summer.
We used to do that years ago, and when we did it, we had barely any injuries.
Coincidence... I think not.

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He will be .......and ......he will. I reckon he showed signs this season of just what a clever footy player he will be and that he possesses a sound footy brain. Sure he was thrown into the deep end this year and I think he showed plenty for a raw 18 yr old. This season's experience will see him blossom into a gun in the next two seasons.....much better than his over rated brother (who admittedly hasn't had a lot of luck in his first few seasons).

I like it when we pick the "right" brother.

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That would be three years Annie, contracted to 2021?

Gee you're tough on the youngest player in the AFL, for a bloke with puppy fat he clunked some great contested marks!

Really? He's got mother's milk on the sides of his mouth?

I honestly thought he was in his mid-20s.
In that case... I've got something to look forward to.