#AFL Round 20 Weekly Discussion Thread

[Beerman]

Highly unusual for Gaff as I don't think that is in his nature.

I've been hearing this a lot, and for all I know it's true.

It's a very interesting comment though, and I think it reflects a fundamental cultural issue in the AFL. What it says to me is that the AFL is a culture where swinging an arm and striking someone is, at some level, considered to be a valid expression of one's emotions. This wasn't the act of some thug who just wanted to hurt someone. It was the act of someone who was frustrated or annoyed and snapped and without thinking fell into a common expression of that - having a swing.

I think the AFL recognises this, and that's why it's cracking down on jumper punches etc. It wants to create an environment where it's just unthinkable to strike another player.

You might say that you can never control what players will do in anger on the spur of the moment, but you might be surprised how much is cultural. There was a great piece of research that looked at people with psychosis and what the hallucinatory voices they heard told them. Interestingly, the American subjects heard voices that encouraged them to violent actions while Indian people heard voices that gave them advice, or told them to do common jobs. Subjects from Ghana had a difference experience again (but mostly positive).

So, I think the AFL can change the culture to one where even where a player snaps, they don't injure someone else.

[Markwebbos]

There was a suggestion that it was a badly executed attempt at a jumper punch.

[Ralph Dawg]

I don't make it quite as bad as Barry Hall's. Gaff and Brayshaw were at least looking and pushing at each other when Gaff lashed out. It is still completely unacceptable on the field though, and I can't see how he would get any less than 6 weeks.

The red card/black card question is a very interesting one. How likely is it that it will go horribly wrong and someone will be issued with their marching orders for something innocuous? How much of a penalty is it to be playing a man down? (Clearly not so bad if you're playing Carlton, but I mean against a decent team). How much of a deterrent is it to be down a rotation?

Not sure what the answer is, but I have every confidence that the AFL will have some stupid idea as an answer, stuff up the implementation and then claim all the decisions are right.

Red card is the answer but place the bar high. It can't be issued by an on field umpire without thorough review and has to be conclusive like the Hall / Cameron / Bugg / Gaff incidents with a demonstrated serious, match ending injury to the opposition player. It is not fair that the team, which is the victim of such a vile action, is forced to play one short. People talk about these decisions deciding a grand final but what about foul play deciding a grand final? Imagine if we make the big dance and Rance (or some knob of his ilk) king hits buddy and takes him out of the game?

Regarding some calls for GBH charges to be laid on Gaff, I wouldn't be averse to that either. He punched him in the head 100m off the play - thats assault. One can't even argue it was a contest for the ball like Cameron v Andrews.

- - - Updated - - -

There was a suggestion that it was a badly executed attempt at a jumper punch.

Jumper punches have been banned in the AFL and would constitute assault anywhere else in the community.

[RogueSwan]

What annoys me about these incidents is media calling them "brain fades" or "brain snaps" as it kinda takes away the ownership of the incident. Not "I got annoyed/angry and decided to lash out".
How about "act of aggression/violence/thuggery" or even cowardice (punching someone in the face when they aren't expecting it)?

[undy]

That is on par with Barry Hall's hit for me. Disgusting. I think if the AFL are going to bring in changes, I would two alterations in this area. Firstly a red card would be appropriate. Immediate send off with no return or substitute. The Eagles should field a team which is one short for the remainder of the match. Secondly, Gaff should not be allowed to play another senior game until Brayshaw is back. The suspension should equal the damage done to the opposition.

I was at the game where Hall hit Staker. Staker had been all over Hall (beyond the laws of the game, but within what is accepted) for a long time with no protection from the umpires, both when the ball was in play and when it wasn't. I could understand why Hall lost the plot. I'm not excusing it, but I can understand it.

In this case I haven't seen the same context, maybe it exists. Staker played a couple of weeks later (and fairly soon afterwards did go on to hit someone himself and get suspended IIRC, probably indicating that he learnt the wrong lesson from the incident). There is no way that Brayshaw will be playing in a few weeks.

Red card needed, I agree.

[RogueSwan]

What annoys me about these incidents is media calling them "brain fades" or "brain snaps" as it kinda takes away the ownership of the incident. Not "I got annoyed/angry and decided to lash out".
How about "act of aggression/violence/thuggery" or even cowardice (punching someone in the face when they aren't expecting it)?

[mcs]

What annoys me about these incidents is media calling them "brain fades" or "brain snaps" as it kinda takes away the ownership of the incident. Not "I got annoyed/angry and decided to lash out".
How about "act of aggression/violence/thuggery" or even cowardice (punching someone in the face when they aren't expecting it)?

It would be nice to have a more accurate representation of the actual incident in the media. It may have been a brain snap, but at the end of the day it is simply thuggery.

[snajik]

It would be nice to have a more accurate representation of the actual incident in the media. It may have been a brain snap, but at the end of the day it is simply thuggery.

It's the same appalling appraisal they are prone to use when someone shoots their family then themselves. 'Everyone thought he was a top bloke, we can't understand it. He must have snapped.'

Then there is that pathetic WCE coach trying to claim that he didn't think it was intentional. The same WCE coach who didn't really notice any booing during the game which caused Goodesy to take a break from the game. Simpson you are a grub.

And what happens when Gaff subsequently kicks a goal? The WC fans stand and applaud. Don't worry about suspending Gaff, just kick the team out of the competition. They are a disgrace.

[stevoswan]

Some interesting tweets re: this incident.

Mark Gottlieb:

"Eagles fans, who spent multiple nights of their lives booing Adam Goodes for talking about racial injustice, giving Andrew Gaff a standing ovation after sucker punching someone......"

Gillian O'Shaughnessy:

"Just a little sickening to see West Coast fans cheering Gaff quite so enthusiastically."

Terry Wallace:

"I found the last half of the Derby really bizarre. Hero worship and unbridled over reactive support of an action that cannot be condoned."

Adam Hill:

"Eagles fans clapping Gaff as he runs off the ground is pretty bloody odd. Between that and their constant booing over the years, they sure are an interesting bunch in the West."

Glenn Mitchell:

"Sorry, but the Eagles fans giving Andrew Gaff a standing ovation when he came off the ground is simply ridiculous."

At last, West Coke fans are being seen for what they truly are........assholes.

[AnnieH]

Difference is, is that Staker deserved it.

Really poor form.
He should get 10 weeks because it was so far from the action and the poor kid has to eat soft food for a month. Staker just got a concussion.
He'll probably get less though, because unlike BBBH, he hasn't got form.

[neilfws]

Worth having a look at these "longest suspension" incidents:

Eight of the longest AFL suspensions | Zero Hanger

I'd say we're looking at a "Barry Hall", minimum. Lynch got 10 games for the GF dust-up and so far as I can tell from the video, barely injured Wakelin.

[Industrial Fan]

Difference is, is that Staker deserved it.

Really poor form.
He should get 10 weeks because it was so far from the action and the poor kid has to eat soft food for a month. Staker just got a concussion.
He'll probably get less though, because unlike BBBH, he hasn't got form.

what a ridiculous comment about Staker.

[Markwebbos]

If they take the medical report from Freo into account, (broken jaw, loosened teeth, no solid food for a month etc), he has to get more than Tom Bugg's six weeks.

[mcs]

It's the same appalling appraisal they are prone to use when someone shoots their family then themselves. 'Everyone thought he was a top bloke, we can't understand it. He must have snapped.'

Then there is that pathetic WCE coach trying to claim that he didn't think it was intentional. The same WCE coach who didn't really notice any booing during the game which caused Goodesy to take a break from the game. Simpson you are a grub.

And what happens when Gaff subsequently kicks a goal? The WC fans stand and applaud. Don't worry about suspending Gaff, just kick the team out of the competition. They are a disgrace.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/western-australia/nothing-but-love-gaff-will-be-dealt-with-but-what-about-the-real-victim-20180806-p4zvqq.html

There are so odd people in the West (Apologies to any Swannies on here from the West - we know you guys have seen the light and are most definitely an exception!)

[KSAS]

Just heard WCE CEO Trevor Nisbett's press conference. After giving update on Gaff's well being & apologising to Andrew Brayshaw, his family & Freo he was asked what he thought of Gaff being clapped off. His response was dumbfounding. Said there were sections of the crowd who may've not seen the incident & not known what fully happened, being an off the ball incident. Trevor said he wasn't fully aware what happened at the time, only seeing the aftermath of Andrew Brayshaw lying on the ground.

I didn't watch this game, but surely the WCE supporters were clapping & cheering Gaff AFTER the incident would've been shown several times on the big screen?

WCE will also have to deal with Andrew's brother Hamish, who wouldn't be happy seeing his team mate decking his brother.