#AFL Round 20 Weekly Discussion Thread

[mcs]

Just heard WCE CEO Trevor Nisbett's press conference. After giving update on Gaff's well being & apologising to Andrew Brayshaw, his family & Freo he was asked what he thought of Gaff being clapped off. His response was dumbfounding. Said there were sections of the crowd who may've not seen the incident & not known what fully happened, being an off the ball incident. Trevor said he wasn't fully aware what happened at the time, only seeing the aftermath of Andrew Brayshaw lying on the ground.

I didn't watch this game, but surely the WCE supporters were clapping & cheering Gaff AFTER the incident would've been shown several times on the big screen?

WCE will also have to deal with Andrew's brother Hamish, who wouldn't be happy seeing his team mate decking his brother.

It sounds like they didn't replay the incident on the big screen at the ground, which can explain somewhat the ignorant reaction of many in the crowd and continual clapping etc.... but I'm sure plenty knew what went on as well.

[AnnieH]

what a ridiculous comment about Staker.

Yeah, nah.
He'd been up Big Blouse Barry's butt all day.

[Matty10]

#AFL Round 20 Weekly Discussion Thread

Lynch got 10 games for the GF dust-up and so far as I can tell from the video, barely injured Wakelin.

This was an easy out for the AFL. Lynch had already announced his retirement, plus they had warned players prior to the match that the penalties would be severe for any incidents during the GF. It would not have been as tough during the home and away season.

[Hotpotato]

Coward hit, busted jaw, four teeth dislodged , out for many games, a teenager .....
Give him 12 months , who needs these thugs ?

[Ludwig]

The first thing I thought when I saw the Gaff incident was: The next thing we'll see is Harry Cunningham king hitting someone.

There's too much of this off the ball gratuitous whacking in football. Even mild mannered Harry, who many of us have criticized for being too soft, is pushing players heads into the turf after a tackle. It seems like every player feels obliged to give and extra push or open hand hit at every stoppage of play. After the early 2017 incident where Callum Mills was targeted, every Swan feels he has to fly the flag, or show he's tough, by taking a cheap shot at an opposition player, and of course, opposition players are of a similar mindset. So it's a kind of physicality and aggression test within the actual game itself. The AFL permits this to continue with umpires only warning players if they are about to cross a line, and only a certain level of violence is deemed serious enough to warrant a fine and another level high enough to receive a suspension.

The AFL is complicit in creating an atmosphere where the Gaff type incident will happen every so often. I doubt if Gaff intentionally meant to hit him in the mouth. Gaff is swinging his arm, because if he hits Brayshaw in the shoulder then nothing will happen, only this time something goes wrong and he connects with the player's head.

I don't think the game will lose anything if all this gratuitous hitting, pushing and shoving went out of the game. You don't see Josh Kennedy getting involved in that sort of stuff. Brett Kirk never did, and when he was captain he insisted the team keep focus on the game instead of complaining about bad umpiring or retaliating against opposition players (Barry Hall excepted).

Is Tom Papley's constant pestering really necessary? Tom will probably never punch anyone in the face, but he sets a bad example for others, like Hayward and Ronke, who feel it necessary to push someone after every stoppage. And they are more likely to do something stupid, even if not intentional.

It's similar to when a country has a gun culture, like the US or South Africa. It creates an atmosphere where gun violence is a likely outcome and major incidents, like mass shootings, occur for no apparent reason than someone having a bad day or a brain snap.

I don't think the number of weeks Gaff is suspended really matters as far as a deterrent for similar incident in the future, just like the death penalty is not a deterrent for murder. If the AFL is serious about eliminating these incidents from the game, it has to clean up the game from the bottom and put an end to gratuitous low level violence outside of play. I think the game as a whole will become more open and entertaining because players can focus on playing the game instead of landing a cheap shot in someone's back just because they can get away with it.

[Matty10]

If the AFL is serious about eliminating these incidents from the game, it has to clean up the game from the bottom and put an end to gratuitous low level violence outside of play.

I am not sure you can eliminate this sort of thing in a contact sport with no off-side rule, but I agree with the point and have expressed a similar view in the past.

I would actually like it to be privately, then publicly, addressed by the club. The club needs a mission statement that is beyond the idea of winning and losing (perhaps that exists now). The members could push for this. I would like to see the club as one that promotes diversity, acceptance, fairness and sportsmanship.

Rules that are enforced by the AFL are a negative reaction to what occurs, I would like a positive platform on which we stand, as a club. This would then be something that is lived by the coaching and playing group.

I must admit that I like the aggression and bravery of many of our players, but I despise acts of picking on those thought to be weaker or vulnerable. I particularly don’t like the “suck it” attitude when individual battles are won (i.e. holding the ball, after a goal is scored or when the opposition makes a mistake). We should aim to be better than this.

[liz]

The first thing I thought when I saw the Gaff incident was: The next thing we'll see is Harry Cunningham king hitting someone.

There's too much of this off the ball gratuitous whacking in football. Even mild mannered Harry, who many of us have criticized for being too soft, is pushing players heads into the turf after a tackle. It seems like every player feels obliged to give and extra push or open hand hit at every stoppage of play. After the early 2017 incident where Callum Mills was targeted, every Swan feels he has to fly the flag, or show he's tough, by taking a cheap shot at an opposition player, and of course, opposition players are of a similar mindset. So it's a kind of physicality and aggression test within the actual game itself. The AFL permits this to continue with umpires only warning players if they are about to cross a line, and only a certain level of violence is deemed serious enough to warrant a fine and another level high enough to receive a suspension.

The AFL is complicit in creating an atmosphere where the Gaff type incident will happen every so often. I doubt if Gaff intentionally meant to hit him in the mouth. Gaff is swinging his arm, because if he hits Brayshaw in the shoulder then nothing will happen, only this time something goes wrong and he connects with the player's head.

I don't think the game will lose anything if all this gratuitous hitting, pushing and shoving went out of the game. You don't see Josh Kennedy getting involved in that sort of stuff. Brett Kirk never did, and when he was captain he insisted the team keep focus on the game instead of complaining about bad umpiring or retaliating against opposition players (Barry Hall excepted).

Is Tom Papley's constant pestering really necessary? Tom will probably never punch anyone in the face, but he sets a bad example for others, like Hayward and Ronke, who feel it necessary to push someone after every stoppage. And they are more likely to do something stupid, even if not intentional.

It's similar to when a country has a gun culture, like the US or South Africa. It creates an atmosphere where gun violence is a likely outcome and major incidents, like mass shootings, occur for no apparent reason than someone having a bad day or a brain snap.

I don't think the number of weeks Gaff is suspended really matters as far as a deterrent for similar incident in the future, just like the death penalty is not a deterrent for murder. If the AFL is serious about eliminating these incidents from the game, it has to clean up the game from the bottom and put an end to gratuitous low level violence outside of play. I think the game as a whole will become more open and entertaining because players can focus on playing the game instead of landing a cheap shot in someone's back just because they can get away with it.

Couldn't agree more.

I was disappointed when they effectively "green lighted" body punches in the most recent off-season by eliminating the three-fines-and-you're-gone-for-a week. I'd have gone the other way and made any punch - even one as soft as Mitchell's to the head of Goldstein - a minimum one week suspension.

I see many in the media are now commenting along similar lines, yet when players used to get rubbed out for minor intentional (ie off-ball) incidents, they'd whinge on about "should he lose out on a Brownlow for that? Or miss a final for that?"

I think the answer is yes, if we want to get players out of the habit. And forceful bumps with the shoulder, especially to the back of an opponent, should draw more freekicks. Papley gave one away against Collingwood that irritated me at the time (ie not fair that it should be a free against, given how common these are) but I've changed my mind. More frees, and maybe more 50m penalties for these actions (and fewer for minor encroachments into some mythical protected zone) might change players' behaviour. Quite apart from the serious damage that can occur when a player misjudges the direction or force of his action, it's becoming really irritating to watch.

[Beerman]

It's the stuff out of play that really gets me. It's completely unnecessary. If Barry Hall whacks Matt Maguire to put him off as the ball comes in that is one thing (and should be penalised). But when Papley comes up and whacks a player in the back after a goal, that's another thing. (Or Grundy(?) repeatedly pushes Sinclair to the ground and won't let him get up.)

I'd be happy to see the AFL introduce an "In-play/Behind-the-play" classification with offences behind the play penalised more severely.

[Mel_C]

Even mild mannered Harry, who many of us have criticized for being too soft, is pushing players heads into the turf after a tackle. It seems like every player feels obliged to give and extra push or open hand hit at every stoppage of play. After the early 2017 incident where Callum Mills was targeted, every Swan feels he has to fly the flag, or show he's tough, by taking a cheap shot at an opposition player, and of course, opposition players are of a similar mindset. So it's a kind of physicality and aggression test within the actual game itself.

I agree with you Ludwig. On the weekend after Cox missed both his shots in the last quarter, swans players went up to him and kept bumping into him. Both times I remember Aliir doing it. I was yelling at the tv for them to stop and hurry up and get into position for the kick out...they were wasting time.

[Mel_C]

On a more positive note I have to commend Hodge for his actions after the Brisbane game. He went up to the young player who missed the set shot and he consoled and encouraged him. I'm not a fan of Hodge but I was impressed with what he did.

[liz]

I'd be happy to see the AFL introduce an "In-play/Behind-the-play" classification with offences behind the play penalised more severely.

They kinda already have that, with intentional generally only applied in off the ball incidents. I realise there are some categories of on the ball incidents now classified as intentional (such as raising the elbow in a marking contest) but these are rare. And if someone punches another player with no intent to contest the ball, I think those should be pretty harshly dealt with too.

I think that, in general, penalties applied by the MRO/tribunal tend to be a little on the low side. I thought - at the time - that Hall's penalty was at the very lowest end of the acceptable range, and I thought an extra week or two for both Bugg and Cameron wouldn't have been out of order.

I think Gaff will get seven weeks - it's a nice number for the tribunal because it's the minimum required to ensure he doesn't play again this year. It's also Bugg +1, reflecting the fact that the damage done to Brayshaw was worse than that done to Mills. But there have been some suggestions floating around the media that Gaff should get a "good bloke" discount. I don't think that's in the least bit appropriate. I am sure he's a lovely guy but that doesn't change what he did and trying to assess the character of players opens a tricky can of worms. I guess it could be justified on the basis of how many games he's played without previously being even reported, but the AFL used to have an explicit "good record" discount that they got rid off. Either they need to bring that back and apply it consistently, or they should ignore prior records for every player.

[dejavoodoo44]

I see that Gaff got 4 votes in the ACA award. I'm guessing that it was 4 from Simpson and none from Lyon; as Ross didn't seem to be all that impressed with Gaff, after the match.
If it was that way, then it's a somewhat tactless message from Simpson. Or maybe he's still trying to pretend that he didn't see the incident?

[liz]

I see that Gaff got 4 votes in the ACA award. I'm guessing that it was 4 from Simpson and none from Lyon; as Ross didn't seem to be all that impressed with Gaff, after the match.
If it was that way, then it's a somewhat tactless message from Simpson. Or maybe he's still trying to pretend that he didn't see the incident?

I made a similar comment over on BF. I think it was very tactless from Simpson. He comes across as one of the less self-absorbed coaches (compared to the Scotts, for example, or Clarkson or even Lyon) but I think it sends out a strange message, especially when combined with his post match comments on Gaff's "intentionality".

[Blood Fever]

On a more positive note I have to commend Hodge for his actions after the Brisbane game. He went up to the young player who missed the set shot and he consoled and encouraged him. I'm not a fan of Hodge but I was impressed with what he did.

Despite the fact he played for the Hawks and has whacked a few guys in his time, have always admired Hodge for his gracious speech immediately after 2012 GF. Genuine old school player and person.

[dejavoodoo44]

I made a similar comment over on BF. I think it was very tactless from Simpson. He comes across as one of the less self-absorbed coaches (compared to the Scotts, for example, or Clarkson or even Lyon) but I think it sends out a strange message, especially when combined with his post match comments on Gaff's "intentionality".

For some reason, a very old joke has entered my mind. "So, apart from that, Mrs Lincoln, what did you think of the play?"