2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

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  • Ralph Dawg
    Senior Player
    • Apr 2018
    • 1729

    Originally posted by liz
    I admit to being puzzled about the difference in what the club says about Mills and how they've been using him. At junior level he was an elite onballer, a much more natural "first dibs" player than Heeney, based on what I saw of both of them. (I think Heeney's best value is either on the outside, or as first receiver from the player who wins the ball at the coal face. His instincts seem to be to stand off multi-player contests and wait to pounce, rather than go in and dig the ball out himself.)

    Is the apparent reluctance to play Mills as a full-time onballer because they think he's too valuable in defence? Or do they have reservations about his abilities in the middle of the ground. The latter puzzles me, given he's not been given much of a run there to find out (though I acknowledge the coaches will have seen much more of him in that role - at training).

    He is a good intercept marker in defence, but that combination of reading the flight of the ball and courage to compete in the air is valuable all around the ground. And I think it is easier to find (or manufacture) decent mid-sized defenders than it is to find (or create) top-line onballers. Given our obvious deficits in the midfield, it seems like a no-brainer to play him there. And indeed, the rationale for chasing Langdon hard in the off-season, and then eventually recruiting Thurlow, was to give the club the option of playing Mills elsewhere.

    So we roll around to the competitive games and, first up, Mills plays pretty well onball in the scratch match against the Giants. Of course, both Parker and JPK were missing that day. As the JLT rolled on, Mills seemed to spend less time in the midfield and more back in his old role as a medium sized defender. And then for round 1, they don't even pick the player they recruited to free him up, in Thurlow, and again we start the game with Mills in defence.

    Even now, for round 2, Thurlow has again not been selected despite solid form throughout the JLT and a positive review from last week's NEAFL game. I know O'Riordan has been brought in, but I don't see him as a replacement in defence for Mills. He should have been in for round one in place of one of the talls, irrespective of where Mills played. So I still don't know where Mills is going to line up at the start of tonight's game, as opposed to later in the game when the midfield is again not firing.

    I don't see Papley or Jones as proposed replacements for JPK. I think they are there to add some smaller bite and zip around the bigger guys - the role that Jack played with aplomb until a couple of seasons ago, when his hip issues really started to take their toll. I think Papley has done OK in the midfield thus far. My main gripe about him playing there is that he's then not in the forward line applying the pressure that was completely missing last weekend. Ronke might help rectify that but I think we need them both milling around Reid and Buddy for substantial periods of the game.

    I've liked what I've seen of Jones in the midfield throughout the JLT and I thought he was one of our less poor players last week. I do also like him zipping out of defence but hopefully COR can provide some of that. (And maybe Ling, or Stoddart, or McInerney in years down the track.) I know I'm more of a fan of Jones than many on here - I forgive him for his occasional errors because they usually happen when he's trying to make something happen, rather than taking safe options.
    I think the frightening thing is that all the names you mention as possible successors to JPK et Al are not even close to being considered as elite mids. We are really so far behind in developing our next generation.............

    Comment

    • Boddo
      Senior Player
      • Mar 2017
      • 1049

      Dunkley playing well for Gippsland.



      Also had 23 disposals against Dandenong yesterday

      Comment

      • wolftone57
        Veterans List
        • Aug 2008
        • 5821

        Originally posted by Markwebbos
        I don’t get it either with Mills. Could it relate to his running ability?
        No, not his running. He's fitter than ever. Been training with the mids and has done all the extra endurance work the mids do. Horse can't get out of defensive mode. He is putting one winger on the defensive side of the square and using him as an intercept defender. Unfortunately that has been a bust for every team that has employed it.

        Problem with Mills is Horse sees him as the savior in defence and the team's chance to start forward movement from the HB run. But would it not be better to have Mills in the mids so we can attack from the mids instead of putting so much pressure on the defence all the time. The trouble is a defensive coaching mindset. If that does not change with all the new rules we are in for a long year.

        We are in a transition period. We do some things well but in most key areas we are lacking. We really need Heeney and Mills to go to the mids. Clarke so far has been poor. I think McInnerney needs to come in. Possibly Bell. We are not going to make the eight the way we play so we may as well try soke things that might actually work. Rowbottom was really good in the reserves. Stop being Conservative, throw him in at the deep end.

        We not only looked slow, we were slow, the last two weeks. If we keep so many slow players in we won't win a game. The slow movement out if defence is just playing into the opposition hands. They set up for it and close all options. We are so Buddy conscious that even when we have other players in great position we kick to an outnumbered Buddy. Our game plan is old, worn out and defunct. The teams that have thrived so far this year are teams who take the game on with speed sbd disposal efficiency. Too many of our players are dreadful at disposal. Even if tgey come here with elite disposal, after 2 years at Sydney, they are crap. The Sydney coaches do not value natural talent. Otherwise they wouldn't keep trying to change good players into ordinary ones.

        Sent from my ANE-LX2J using Tapatalk

        Comment

        • Markwebbos
          Veterans List
          • Jul 2016
          • 7186

          I don't know if this is an omen? but the Sydney Swans key I bought, must be 5 years ago, snapped off in the lock to my front door today.

          Comment

          • wolftone57
            Veterans List
            • Aug 2008
            • 5821

            Originally posted by Markwebbos
            I don't know if this is an omen? but the Sydney Swans key I bought, must be 5 years ago, snapped off in the lock to my front door today.
            EEEEEKKKKK! BE AFRAID, VERY AFRAID!

            Sent from my ANE-LX2J using Tapatalk

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            • Auntie.Gerald
              Veterans List
              • Oct 2009
              • 6471

              For me it is

              1. the flexibility of game plan rather then old plans not working ie being able to respond to what is before you. Adjusting at the contest and adjusting in the game between uncontested and contested footy when apppropriate.
              Our greatest strength was trench warfare in tight winning contested ball , but teams know if they can tunnel ball to the outside of the contest we are very vulnerable

              Ie with the bulldogs when playing us they tried to clear the ball by any means as quickly as possible from the contest - they would punch the ball along the ground tunnel ball style / rolling contest style to the north or south to a player that peeled off the contest so that the contest was now on the outside

              This was very clever because kennedy and Parker etc want the ball on the inside so they can stand and deliver ......... players like kennedy and Parker do not want to be chasing on the outside of the contest because they won’t be able to catch their opponent

              Exposed brilliantly

              All teams have triggers ie if the ball moves to certain area of the field this prompts players to react in certain ways

              The bulldogs “trigger” at the centre clearance was as soon as a doggie player dived in he would punch the ball along the ground and then the dogs would break hard and back themself to keep possession

              This is the antidote to our centre clearance style unless we are flexible and can go toe to toe with this type of tactic for parts of the game and also have have the two north south players peel off or move our players around to have tunnel ball exits east west half the time and north south the other half

              This is not difficult to be flexible with several exit / centre clearance options

              It worked a treat for the dogs and left us stuck in the middle reacting after the ball had been tunnelled out
              Last edited by Auntie.Gerald; 2 April 2019, 04:50 AM.
              "be tough, only when it gets tough"

              Comment

              • Ruck'n'Roll
                Ego alta, ergo ictus
                • Nov 2003
                • 3990

                Originally posted by Ralph Dawg
                Let's hope we still have some money in the kitty after we have paid Buddy and Tippett...........
                Just a thought #1
                Everyone seems to assume that the departure of Dirty Kurt will/would free up salary cap space, likewise offloading Mitchell, Rowan, Hannebury etc. - it's assumed we will have salary space. But wasn't Buddy's contract heavily back ended?
                In which case - maybe there is no great and growing salary cap space, maybe we're just trying to stay within the salary cap.

                Comment

                • wolftone57
                  Veterans List
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 5821

                  Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
                  Just a thought #1
                  Everyone seems to assume that the departure of Dirty Kurt will/would free up salary cap space, likewise offloading Mitchell, Rowan, Hannebury etc. - it's assumed we will have salary space. But wasn't Buddy's contract heavily back ended?
                  In which case - maybe there is no great and growing salary cap space, maybe we're just trying to stay within the salary cap.
                  The President said we now have plenty of space to work with. He said that even with Buddy's contract we are in a good position. The problem is there are several things against us. We have a long term coach who many see as reaching the end of his tenure. We are in Sydney the most expensive city in Aus. Some players don't rate our list that highly. We are not seen as a team that is on the rise. We are seen as a team falling back. We don't have good facilities and until the new facilities are finished we will struggle there. We don't even have a training ground due to the Light Rail. We rely too much on one player.

                  Sent from my ANE-LX2J using Tapatalk

                  Comment

                  • Ruck'n'Roll
                    Ego alta, ergo ictus
                    • Nov 2003
                    • 3990

                    Originally posted by wolftone57
                    We rely too much on one player.
                    Just a thought #2
                    And what's with the assertion that we need to land a big fish anyway.
                    I'm a bit of student of Swans history and no big cash splash has led to a redandwhite flag since 1933. And it's looking less likely that our most recent splash will add to that total with each passing year.
                    On the other hand I have seen a strategy of developing our own players, and chasing the occasional undervalued talent lead to 2 red and white flags.
                    Seems to me that the lesson of the last few decades is that recruiting "glamorous" recruits and winning flags are mutually exclusive goals.

                    Comment

                    • AnnieH
                      RWOs Black Sheep
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 11332

                      Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
                      Just a thought #1
                      Everyone seems to assume that the departure of Dirty Kurt will/would free up salary cap space, likewise offloading Mitchell, Rowan, Hannebury etc. - it's assumed we will have salary space. But wasn't Buddy's contract heavily back ended?
                      In which case - maybe there is no great and growing salary cap space, maybe we're just trying to stay within the salary cap.
                      I'm pretty sure it was front ended to save us money at the rear end.
                      Wild speculation, unsubstantiated rumours, silly jokes and opposition delight in another's failures is what makes an internet forum fun.
                      Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones who let in the light.

                      Comment

                      • Ruck'n'Roll
                        Ego alta, ergo ictus
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 3990

                        Sorry Annie https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/...009-2v8qk.html

                        Comment

                        • Melbourne_Blood
                          Senior Player
                          • May 2010
                          • 3312

                          Originally posted by AnnieH
                          I'm pretty sure it was front ended to save us money at the rear end.
                          Quite sure he is In the golden years now we his earning over a million a year , possibly well over . Didn’t they structure it as back ended to allow for the expected rise in salary cap ?


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                          • caj23
                            Senior Player
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 2462

                            Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
                            That's correct, but we still should have plenty of space as the total salary cap has also increased

                            Richmond are paying Dusty the same money as Buddy and still didn't have a problem recruiting the biggest free agent last year (not to mention that Rance, Jack, Cotch and co don't play for free)

                            If our salary cap was still bursting it would be gross mismanagement

                            Comment

                            • Boddo
                              Senior Player
                              • Mar 2017
                              • 1049

                              Originally posted by caj23
                              That's correct, but we still should have plenty of space as the total salary cap has also increased

                              Richmond are paying Dusty the same money as Buddy and still didn't have a problem recruiting the biggest free agent last year (not to mention that Rance, Jack, Cotch and co don't play for free)

                              If our salary cap was still bursting it would be gross mismanagement
                              Richmond also would be able to arrange third party deals that lower their tpp. The small bit that I’ve read says that Martin took a lower than expect contract due to Richmond being able to facilitate more income post career.

                              So this is most likely why Richmond were able to secure Lynch and also able to re-sign Martin. Third party deals.

                              Collingwood would have did the same in signing Beams and re-signing Moore & Langford.

                              Its almost like northern clubs need a retention allowance to compete with the big Melbourne clubs. Like say 9.8% extra on contracts.

                              Comment

                              • 0918330512
                                Senior Player
                                • Sep 2011
                                • 1654

                                Originally posted by Boddo
                                Richmond also would be able to arrange third party deals that lower their tpp. The small bit that I’ve read says that Martin took a lower than expect contract due to Richmond being able to facilitate more income post career.

                                So this is most likely why Richmond were able to secure Lynch and also able to re-sign Martin. Third party deals.

                                Collingwood would have did the same in signing Beams and re-signing Moore & Langford.

                                Its almost like northern clubs need a retention allowance to compete with the big Melbourne clubs. Like say 9.8% extra on contracts.
                                I thought such 3rd party payments were frowned upon ala Tippett and to a degree Judd

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