2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[707]

Don't talk to us that were staggered Dawson was ignored at selection in his 3rd year when he was on fire as a mid in the NEAFL. Don't the selection committee read RWO? our calls for his selection were deafening!

Adam Goodes had a very unflattering first year, that turned out ok :-)

I think we can trust the coaches to retain the correct ones, can't think of anyone we cut that has gone on to do good things?

[TheBloods]

The expectation was that Mills would be a star. He did win the rising star award. He's been a great defender for us. Maybe if he plays midfield on a regular basis he will reach that Star status.

I think Aliir and Dawson, as 3rd round picks have exceeded expectations, and Hewett, a pick 32, has done very well with top 7 finishes in the B & F the last 2 years.

Florent and Hayward haven't reached the level which might have been expected, but they are improving although lacking consistency. There should be a lot of upside for both players.

I don't know what the threshold is for being deemed a Star. The salary cap effectively limits the number of stars a club will likely have. It's probably more important to have a team filled with good consistent players and a few stars, than one with lot of stars, but a lot of dud players as well.

In any case, I'm not sure what you are suggesting. You named 6 players who haven't met your expectations. Should we trade them all and start over again in the hope that the next half dozen lot will turn out better than the first?

You are speaking of how they are performing relative to their draft positions while I am speaking of how they are performing relative to the competition. The other 17 clubs that we will have to out-perform if we are to win the premiership. It feels like we are doing a lot of waiting, rather than seeing, where our younger players are concerned.

Is it wrong to have questions about the rebuild when it's yet to produce a star besides Isaac and Papley??

[Blood Fever]

You are speaking of how they are performing relative to their draft positions while I am speaking of how they are performing relative to the competition. The other 17 clubs that we will have to out-perform if we are to win the premiership. It feels like we are doing a lot of waiting, rather than seeing, where our younger players are concerned.

Is it wrong to have questions about the rebuild when it's yet to produce a star besides Isaac and Papley??

Who is saying that it is wrong? Opinions differ, that's all.

[Melbourne_Blood]

I think Preuss would be a good salary dump for the Dees. He’s obviously not in their long term plans. Dropped again this week, and Jackson will only get better as he matures.

Assuming he’s not on too much or expecting too much, I think we could get him in with the promise of the no.1 ruck spot.


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[Markwebbos]

I think Preuss would be a good salary dump for the Dees. He’s obviously not in their long term plans. Dropped again this week, and Jackson will only get better as he matures.

Assuming he’s not on too much or expecting too much, I think we could get him in with the promise of the no.1 ruck spot.


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He’s a better solution than Sinkers surely.

[Ludwig]

You are speaking of how they are performing relative to their draft positions while I am speaking of how they are performing relative to the competition. The other 17 clubs that we will have to out-perform if we are to win the premiership. It feels like we are doing a lot of waiting, rather than seeing, where our younger players are concerned.

Is it wrong to have questions about the rebuild when it's yet to produce a star besides Isaac and Papley??

I think questioning the rebuild is one of the central themes of this thread. It's perfectly valid to do so. We have a wide range of opinions on the subject.

I hope this dialectic helps in reaching some consensus on how we are actually doing. When we fail to make the finals 2 years running, it looks like a crisis. But is it?

I think you bring up some important points involving the measurement of success when you're in the middle of a process and the final results are far from clear. I find it hard to define who is star, especially in the early years of a career. Callum Mills, who you bring up as an example, is a good one. How do we rate him against other 5th year players? I suppose Jacob Weitering is a star, and Oliver as well. Maybe Josh Dunkley should be rated a star. Is Dunkley better than Mills? I don't know. There's a lot to like in both players.

Once we define what a star player is, we can list players from each draft who we think are stars. I don't think there are going to be 18 stars from any draft. Any club that can produce 1 star per draft should probably be a regular top 4 team and win a few premierships along the way, except if you're GWS.

It's going to be hard for any club to match the number of stars on GWS and GC. Carlton can probably field a team consisting of only 1st round picks. But it doesn't seem to add up to a premiership team.

I don't have any formula either. Sometimes stats are a good indication, but there are many exceptions. I think that if a young player is still developing and continuing to improve, even if it's not a straight line of progress, then I hesitate to pass judgment on the player. There are differences of opinion because we each have our own internal rating system. It will be 4 or 5 years before we will know who was right in rating the potential of our list.

[Aaron]

Preuss is younger and taller but not much better. See the Comparison at https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...&fid1=S&fid2=S

[i'm-uninformed2]

How about Jack Viney? 26, free agent, hasn’t yet got a contract for 2021

Can’t hit the side door of a barn and consistently fails to read the play. Tough and hard, but not much else

[707]

Pruess is very happy collecting AFL pay for only having to play VFL. Such a minimal upgrade, if at all, to be wasting a draft pick on.

Viney is accurately described in the post above, adds nothing.

I'm ok with adding young talent for another year. Be good if we could bank some TPP next year to carry over to 2022, the last year of Buddy's contract, go for a quality mature ager next year with that banked TPP.

[Thunder Shaker]

I think questioning the rebuild is one of the central themes of this thread. It's perfectly valid to do so. We have a wide range of opinions on the subject.

I hope this dialectic helps in reaching some consensus on how we are actually doing. When we fail to make the finals 2 years running, it looks like a crisis. But is it?

It isn't a crisis, no. It just feels like it because it's not something Sydney has done for 25 years.

A list of the last season (excluding 2020) when clubs missed the finals for the second year in a row (plus number of years out of finals ending at the given year):
Adelaide: 2019 (2)
Brisbane Lions: 2018 (9)
Carlton: 2019 (6)
Collingwood: 2017 (4)
Essendon: 2016 (2)
Fremantle: 2019 (4)
Geelong: 2003 (3)
Gold Coast: 2019 (9) * never made finals
Greater Western Sydney: 2015 (4)
Hawthorn: 2006 (5)
Melbourne: 2017 (11)
North Melbourne: 2019 (3)
Port Adelaide: 2019 (2)
Richmond: 2012 (11)
St Kilda: 2019 (8)
Sydney: 1995 (8)
West Coast: 2014 (2)
Western Bulldogs: 2018 (2)

Out of the 18 clubs, Sydney has gone the longest without a 2-year streak out of the finals until the end of the 2019 season. When Sydney last missed the finals multiple years in a row, Paul Kelly was captain, Ron Barassi was coach, Michael O'Loughlin had just been drafted, nearly half the current list had not been born, and Brisbane and the Lions were separate clubs.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Preuss is younger and taller but not much better. See the Comparison at https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...&fid1=S&fid2=S

Smaller sample though, the guy has never had a solid run at it. Compared to a guy on Sinclair who has been playing consistently for the past 5 seasons. On that comparison you would say Preuss has scope to well and truly surpass Sinkers output if he gets a shot to play consistent footy.


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[Melbourne_Blood]

Pruess is very happy collecting AFL pay for only having to play VFL. Such a minimal upgrade, if at all, to be wasting a draft pick on.

Viney is accurately described in the post above, adds nothing.

I'm ok with adding young talent for another year. Be good if we could bank some TPP next year to carry over to 2022, the last year of Buddy's contract, go for a quality mature ager next year with that banked TPP.

Happy to play seconds , You know this how ?

Preuss hasn’t had a good run at senior level, at worst he’s on par with Sinkers but he’s also much younger, taller, Bigger bodied and has played far less senior footy ( due to being stuck behind firstly Goldstein and now Gawn, two of the best Rucks in the comp )

He’s the type of ruck prospect we’ve had success with in the past, and I don’t think he’d cost much more than a future third pick. Future second at a stretch. I’m basing that on the assumption the Dees will want to get him off the books, as I don’t see how we figured in their plans after this season.

More than happy to give away a future second round for a guy who potentially could significantly improve our ruck situation. I’ve seen enough glimpses to think he could flourish with the responsibility of a no.1 ruck role. And a consistent run of senior footy.


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[707]

Happy to play seconds , You know this how ?

Went from not getting a game at Norf stuck behind Goldy so requested a trade to Melbourne to not be getting a game be struck behind a younger Gawn.

So Pruess is either the dumbest player in the league or is happy playing VFL for the bigger pay cheque he was offered at Melbourne!

If he wanted to play seniors, at the time there were a couple of clubs needing a lead ruckman. Let's see if he really wants that by requesting a trade this year after yet another year of hardly any senior games.

[Captain]

Pruess would be a good get. I think he is a very solid ruckman and much better than Sinclair.

[AB Swannie]

It isn't a crisis, no. It just feels like it because it's not something Sydney has done for 25 years.

A list of the last season (excluding 2020) when clubs missed the finals for the second year in a row (plus number of years out of finals ending at the given year):
Adelaide: 2019 (2)
Brisbane Lions: 2018 (9)
Carlton: 2019 (6)
Collingwood: 2017 (4)
Essendon: 2016 (2)
Fremantle: 2019 (4)
Geelong: 2003 (3)
Gold Coast: 2019 (9) * never made finals
Greater Western Sydney: 2015 (4)
Hawthorn: 2006 (5)
Melbourne: 2017 (11)
North Melbourne: 2019 (3)
Port Adelaide: 2019 (2)
Richmond: 2012 (11)
St Kilda: 2019 (8)
Sydney: 1995 (8)
West Coast: 2014 (2)
Western Bulldogs: 2018 (2)

Out of the 18 clubs, Sydney has gone the longest without a 2-year streak out of the finals until the end of the 2019 season. When Sydney last missed the finals multiple years in a row, Paul Kelly was captain, Ron Barassi was coach, Michael O'Loughlin had just been drafted, nearly half the current list had not been born, and Brisbane and the Lions were separate clubs.

Interesting post. Thanks for researching and sharing.