2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Ludwig]

Charlie Constable set to request a trade at the end of the year

Why young Cat is set for a likely trade request: Sam Edmund

Constable has been told he can no longer play in the same Geelong midfield as Joel Selwood and Patrick Dangerfield – setting the scene for a likely trade request at seasons end.

Constable, the No.36 pick in the 2017 national draft, completed a one year apprenticeship in the VFL in 2018 before last year making a bright start to his career by racking up 31 disposals and a goal in only his second game to earn a rising star nomination.

He averaged 23.2 touches in his first six appearances.

I know many think we need another accumulator in the midfield, but I have long disagreed. It runs counter to the way we've been recruiting in recent years, where speed and skill have been the priority.

Chad Warner was our addition to the inside midfield mix from last year's draft. Someone like Constable would just compete with him for a spot, which is not going to be easy to get in any case.

We still should have JPK for another couple of years, plus Parker, Hewett, Rowbottom, Mills and perhaps Florent and Heeney as well.

We are starting to see more players that would be classified as outside mids playing on ball lately and I expect this trend to continue. A case in point is that Zak Jones couldn't get an inside role at the Swans, but is now the main man at stoppages for the Saints. I think Jones, who is similar to Luke Shuey, is the kind of player who best fits the requirements at stoppages.

It's worth the time to scroll down our list and find what spots our young players should be targeting. Also consider that Campbell and Gulden will be added to that list. We have a plethora of midfielders. Many more candidates than we have spots.

[Aaron]

The AFL will stage its Northern Academy Series in August with plenty of young stars on show

A chance to see Campbell and Gulden in action next month.
2020 Northern Academy Series fixture
Saturday, 8 August
Sydney v Greater Western Sydney, Blacktown International Sportspark
Sunday, 9 August
Brisbane v Gold Coast, South Pine Sports Complex, Brendale
Sunday, 16 August
Sydney v Brisbane, Blacktown International Sportspark
Greater Western Sydney v Gold Coast, Blacktown International Sportspark
Sunday, 30 August
Gold Coast v Sydney, Aspley
Brisbane vGreater Western Sydney, Aspley

[neilfws]

Can you overlay membership figures over the graph. Ive always wondered about relationship of membership to crowds

I feel that might be a messy graph, and there are also questions about the location of members: how many are NSW/Sydney-based (I don't have those numbers), what proportion are able to get to the SCG, is that proportion of the total consistent over the years, how members are counted each year and so on...

What I can do instead is grab membership numbers and average home crowds from Wikipedia and plot that.

The shape is quite similar to my previous chart. And it looks like membership does track with crowds quite well, but then plateaus around 30000. Also there's a point where membership "takes off" but crowds don't follow, because not all members get to all games and venues have restrictions.

[Markwebbos]

Dangerfield, AFLPA and Teddy Richards have been critical of the Herald-Sun's rich list

Dangerfield disappointed with 'Rich List' player salary "guesstimates"

The Geelong midfielder feels the media should not go down the path of making player salaries public and doubts the accuracy of the numbers. “I think that’s exactly what it is – it’s a guesstimate,” he told *SEN’s Whateley. “If you collate the reports of the last couple of years, and I’m not undermining the work that’s been done to create it, but it’s not super hard. You see it every year the guesstimates in and around players out of contract and what that value will be. I don’t think we need to go down the path of labelling player salaries. I don’t think it’s that important. It’s their own business."

[Ludwig]

I would like to add another forward/ruckman worth considering for recruitment this year, and he should come cheap: Sam Skinner, a 23yo 198cm rookie listed forward with the Brisbane Lions who has only played 1 AFL. But he can play and is very talented. The downside is that he has a pretty bad injury history, which accounts for his single AFL outing, so that would have to be checked out in depth.

My list of possible recruits to fill the Naismith vacancy are: Peter Wright, Preuss, Mabior Chol, Daniher and Skinner.

[bloodspirit]

I was just considering, again, the possible delistings later this year. My thinking is that: Thurlow, Rowles, Reynolds, Maibaum and, possibly, Amartey seem most likely to be cut first (at this stage). However, with the smalls Campbell and Gulden due to join the club, I think that the pressure will surely be on Wicks, Foot, Gray and Ronke and one of them is probably the next in line for de-listing. Ronke would be a fair chance of being picked up by another club - at least in normal times, maybe not if lists are going to be downsized. I also think that there is a real prospect that Naismith will retire. Stoddart and maybe Melican also at risk if we have to make substantial cuts - which is on the cards if list sizes are reduced (which remains an unknown). I'm conscious that if list sizes are reduced across the AFL some pretty good players might be cut and there may be opportunties to pick up decent players that are a better fit for our needs cheaply which would be a reason to cut harder than otherwise too.

Ludwig, glad you're thinking about rucks. Sinclair plus Knoll is not a ruck division to speak of. I agree we need to bring in at least one more ruck. I don't know anything about Skinner but 198 cm is a little on the short side for a ruck these days. Of course a good 198 cm ruck can be good enough. Of the others you mention, only Preuss is pure ruck. Wright or Daniher should only be recruited as a second ruck/forward. Mabior Chol is an exciting player but again not sure if he is the one to lead the ruck division. Is there a gettable ruck who's not first choice in SA? Sam Hayes might be one and there could be at least one other. I think we need to expand our list of candidates. Hopefully KB, Dalrymple and Cox are on to it and figure out who to target.

[Industrial Fan]

I keep hearing about shrinking list sizes. Is there anything so far to substantiate why this is on the agenda or even a remote possibility?

[707]

The AFL will stage its Northern Academy Series in August with plenty of young stars on show

A chance to see Campbell and Gulden in action next month.
2020 Northern Academy Series fixture
Saturday, 8 August
Sydney v Greater Western Sydney, Blacktown International Sportspark
Sunday, 9 August
Brisbane v Gold Coast, South Pine Sports Complex, Brendale
Sunday, 16 August
Sydney v Brisbane, Blacktown International Sportspark
Greater Western Sydney v Gold Coast, Blacktown International Sportspark
Sunday, 30 August
Gold Coast v Sydney, Aspley
Brisbane vGreater Western Sydney, Aspley

Last thing we need is for Campbell and Gulden to be starring in these matches given no Victorians are pulling on the boots this season. I think there's a rule you can only match one first round bid? Means we don't want Gulden climbing the draft boards into the late first round which at this stage is 19 picks but possibly more if FA get high compo picks. Think they both need injury niggles :-)

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Ludwig, glad you're thinking about rucks. Sinclair plus Knoll is not a ruck division to speak of. I agree we need to bring in at least one more ruck. I don't know anything about Skinner but 198 cm is a little on the short side for a ruck these days. Of course a good 198 cm ruck can be good enough. Of the others you mention, only Preuss is pure ruck. Wright or Daniher should only be recruited as a second ruck/forward. Mabior Chol is an exciting player but again not sure if he is the one to lead the ruck division. Is there a gettable ruck who's not first choice in SA? Sam Hayes might be one and there could be at least one other. I think we need to expand our list of candidates. Hopefully KB, Dalrymple and Cox are on to it and figure out who to target.

I think we need a ruckman, someone who can take 80% of the contests and a ruck/forward, someone that can relive in the ruck but make a decent contribution up forward (Pike, Sinkers' Tippett style).
With Sam's injury we lack the former completely, I make no comment on Knoll as he's yet to play a senior game.
While I hope like hell we dont recruit any more salary cap sponges, I'd be quite happy to use our first round draft pick to get a decent ruckman, if that's what another club requires (ala Jolly or Mumford) rather than wasting time in the bargain bin (ala Chambers).
Alternately there is probably still time to use that pick on a A grade kid in the draft and have him just about developed in time for the 2023 flag challenge.

[707]

I keep hearing about shrinking list sizes. Is there anything so far to substantiate why this is on the agenda or even a remote possibility?

Was talked about extensively at the start of the shutdown by the AFL and clubs, the latter who have pushed back. It's a way of reducing costs by reducing the TPP.

Important that guys like Wicks, who have very good NEAFL form get tried, to see if they are keepers or not.

[Ludwig]

I was just considering, again, the possible delistings later this year. My thinking is that: Thurlow, Rowles, Reynolds, Maibaum and, possibly, Amartey seem most likely to be cut first (at this stage). However, with the smalls Campbell and Gulden due to join the club, I think that the pressure will surely be on Wicks, Foot, Gray and Ronke and one of them is probably the next in line for de-listing. Ronke would be a fair chance of being picked up by another club - at least in normal times, maybe not if lists are going to be downsized. I also think that there is a real prospect that Naismith will retire. Stoddart and maybe Melican also at risk if we have to make substantial cuts - which is on the cards if list sizes are reduced (which remains an unknown). I'm conscious that if list sizes are reduced across the AFL some pretty good players might be cut and there may be opportunties to pick up decent players that are a better fit for our needs cheaply which would be a reason to cut harder than otherwise too.

Ludwig, glad you're thinking about rucks. Sinclair plus Knoll is not a ruck division to speak of. I agree we need to bring in at least one more ruck. I don't know anything about Skinner but 198 cm is a little on the short side for a ruck these days. Of course a good 198 cm ruck can be good enough. Of the others you mention, only Preuss is pure ruck. Wright or Daniher should only be recruited as a second ruck/forward. Mabior Chol is an exciting player but again not sure if he is the one to lead the ruck division. Is there a gettable ruck who's not first choice in SA? Sam Hayes might be one and there could be at least one other. I think we need to expand our list of candidates. Hopefully KB, Dalrymple and Cox are on to it and figure out who to target.

There are too many variables to consider with delistings in combination with list size reductions. What about players already contracted for 2021, like Sam Gray? I think we just have to wait to see the specifics.

Preuss is the only true ruckman who looks a likely target, given that Melbourne have recruited Luke Jackson. There are about a half dozen ruckmen in the league that are truly dominant and you can build a midfield around, but we're not getting any of them. So I think going the duel position route is one that has to be considered. Peter Wright, given his size, is the one most worth considering, but he's in contract and also listed in the top 100 paid players. Skinner is really a forward, but is a good size and athletic, so he's in that group of players, like Amartey and Chol, who are not true ruckmen, but can do an adequate job, while also playing a role once the ruck contest is completed. It's just a strategy I favour, because we wouldn't be dependent on one player to come up and play well every week, which would be the case with a Preuss, as it was with Naismith.

This is my reason for wanting to see Amartey play a few games this year and see how he stacks up against a McLean. We may not be able to keep both on our list.

[Nico]

A relation of Zac Foot rang SEN yesterday bemoaning the fact that he hasn't got a game despite being in the best in the scratch matches.

[Meg]

A relation of Zac Foot rang SEN yesterday bemoaning the fact that he hasn't got a game despite being in the best in the scratch matches.

And someone posted on Sydney Swans Instagram site ‘Put Jack Maibaum in’.

The name of the poster? Laura Maibaum [emoji1787]. (sister I suspect).

[liz]

Last thing we need is for Campbell and Gulden to be starring in these matches given no Victorians are pulling on the boots this season. I think there's a rule you can only match one first round bid? Means we don't want Gulden climbing the draft boards into the late first round which at this stage is 19 picks but possibly more if FA get high compo picks. Think they both need injury niggles :-)

I imagine this academy series will now need to be re-thought in the wake of Queensland closing its borders to anyone from Greater Sydney. I expect we'll see two three-match series between Sydney and GWS academies on one hand, and the Brisbane and Gold Coast academies on the other.

[waswan]

Is there any update on list sizes for next year ? Assuming that means salary caps are coming down ?
How are teams signing player extensions atm without this detail ?

Surely its only cutting the Cat Rookies etc ? Not sure what it achieves ?