2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Markwebbos]

The Hun is reporting that Daniher’s contract at Brisbane would not be enough to get the Bombers pick 7 as compo, only an end of first rounder.

It gets better. Brisbane has said that if the Bombers force them to trade they’ll walk away. Meaning JD would be forced to nominate for the PSD...

Where we hold pick 3...

Category: | Herald Sun

Also he’s keen to play more ruck and Lions plan to play him as a fwd.

I’m another article Hun says Geelong are prepared to trade Constable.

[111431]

As someone posted earlier, the Sydney AFL are streaming their grand finals today on their Facebook page so we'll get to see Errol play in the seniors game for the Bulldogs.

Something I find interesting. I just watched the video on the Sydney AFL facebook page of the Phelan Medal count. Former Academy player Jake Bartholomaeus won the count with 16 votes and in 2nd place was Errol Gulden with 12 votes.

The interesting thing is that Braeden Campbell did not receive 1 vote in the entire count!

Now I am unsure if he played many games (or any) in the Premier League but if so, I find it a little strange that he is rated to be drafted way above Gulden even though Errol's consistent strong performances clearly outweigh his.

I'm thinking the old 'potential' factor is at play here as well as A LOT of the old height bias coming into play....

Even so, I'm happy to draft Errol at a discount as I think he's going to be a sensational AFL footballer if, and I mean IF, we let him loose!

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I watched Errol play a game in Melb last year against the Sandringham Dragons. He was far and away the best player on the ground. He may be compact but he is quick and has plenty of tricks. I think he will be an excellent player

[i'm-uninformed2]

From what I’ve seen of the two:

* they have very similar qualities and skills, but the height factor clearly plays a part in their ratings as it’s the exception rather than the rule that smaller players do well at AFL level (I’m sure Gulden will succeed but it’s still a factor);
* it’s not that Gulden isn’t a terrific kick, but at the high end of the draft you need a feature to your game that is elite - and Campbell’s footskills are seen as just about best in class;
* we are still going to have to play a combined premium for the two, but they absolutely look worth it.

[Aprilbr]

It will be great to see Daniher go from Essendon for minor compensation to Essendon. It could not happen to a finer individual than Dodoro. The chances of Daniher ending up in the pre-season draft seem low but it would be a real bonus if that was the case.

[MattW]

The Hun is reporting that Daniher’s contract at Brisbane would not be enough to get the Bombers pick 7 as compo, only an end of first rounder.

It gets better. Brisbane has said that if the Bombers force them to trade they’ll walk away. Meaning JD would be forced to nominate for the PSD...

Where we hold pick 3...

Category: | Herald Sun

Also he’s keen to play more ruck and Lions plan to play him as a fwd.

I’m another article Hun says Geelong are prepared to trade Constable.

That's all interesting on Daniher, Mark - although wonder whether the 'walk away' line is posturing. Would Brisbane and Essendon really both walk away than get any semblance of what they want?

You'd think we'd be happy to accommodate any ruck desire. The last game of the season shows how he looks when he plays up the ground: Check out Joe Daniher's Highlights from ESS v MELB, Rd 18 2020
https://afl.app.link/DzBcqjAvsab.

But this leads me back to wondering why we fell away weeks ago and his nominated club is Brisbane, because it goes to whether we're even an option if he goes to the PSD. I'm guessing we are not offering as much cash. Would he still be interested in playing for us, on lesser terms?

[Ralph Dawg]

Sorry but no way is this an upgrade. Townsend is a 27 year old journeyman who struggled to play regularly for Essendon. He has kicked a career total of 41 goals. On the other hand, Hayward is 21, entering his prime and already has better stats than Townsend across the board.

Sorry, I should've put that comment in the context of him potentially leaving. As a direct one for one swap, Wilbur has way more upside than any of the 3 players listed that we are interested in.

But if he were to go, and we could extract a second rounder for him and a solid enough replacement, then that would be more than acceptable, especially if we used the pick to draft in someone like Preuss or to stop us going into deficit 2021.

[Ralph Dawg]

Realistically, if we are to make any significant moves beyond using 3 and getting Campbell and Gulden, we will need to let go of some of our up and coming players. Some names that come to mind would be Wilbur, Ollie, Melican or Aliir.

My preference would be to keep any player who is best 22 (or potential to be), trade in competent players who don't cost the earth but have enough upside and use the draft. If someone (contracted) wants out, then investigate the option but only let go for a deal that benefits us.

[Markwebbos]

That's all interesting on Daniher, Mark - although wonder whether the 'walk away' line is posturing. Would Brisbane and Essendon really both walk away than get any semblance of what they want?

You'd think we'd be happy to accommodate any ruck desire. The last game of the season shows how he looks when he plays up the ground: Check out Joe Daniher's Highlights from ESS v MELB, Rd 18 2020
https://afl.app.link/DzBcqjAvsab.

But this leads me back to wondering why we fell away weeks ago and his nominated club is Brisbane, because it goes to whether we're even an option if he goes to the PSD. I'm guessing we are not offering as much cash. Would he still be interested in playing for us, on lesser terms?

There’s definite posturing on both sides, but interesting to see Brisbane attempting to out-Dodo Dodoro.

According to the Hun, we are still interested in JD, but Brisbane’s advantages over us include: (1) their rehab team (and I believe he doesn’t think the groin op he had was that effective) (2) they are playing finals and we aren’t (3) enjoying spending time in QLD Hub (4) being just one of a number of forwards (including Hipwood) rather than THE marquee fwd.

He can put a price on his head but it sounds unlikely Brisbane would play that game.

I don’t know if he’d be prepared to come to the Swans if the Lions deal falls over. It wouldn’t cost us much in picks or $ so potentially a lower risk solution.

[troyjones2525]

Errol Gulden wearing #12 for the Bulldogs.

LIVE AFL Sydney Mens Premier Grand Final UNSW/ES vs Sydney Uni - YouTube

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[liz]

From what I’ve seen of the two:

* they have very similar qualities and skills, but the height factor clearly plays a part in their ratings as it’s the exception rather than the rule that smaller players do well at AFL level (I’m sure Gulden will succeed but it’s still a factor);
* it’s not that Gulden isn’t a terrific kick, but at the high end of the draft you need a feature to your game that is elite - and Campbell’s footskills are seen as just about best in class;
* we are still going to have to play a combined premium for the two, but they absolutely look worth it.

I don't think they are especially similar. Campbell is a far smoother mover, quicker and a very classy kick. Gulden has all the attributes you look for in a larger inside midfielder (say a Luke Parker type) - he's not overly quick (though not a snail either), his kicking is OK without being great, but he gets to a huge number of contests, hunts the ball, reads the game well (which helps him get to so many contests when combined with strong endurance). He is also pretty good at applying pressure around the contest and at tackling.

I guess the question mark is how successfully he'll be able to apply those attributes at the very top level, when his natural opponents will all be much bigger, stronger and fitter than those he has played against at lower levels. I have little doubt (injury permitting) that he'll have some kind of AFL career, possibly a very good one. But there is a possibility he'll have to reinvent himself somewhat.

I saw Daniel play one U18 championships game where he was BOG by a significant margin. Were he 180cm tall, I think he'd be a gun onballer by now. His size has limited him though and he's created a role for himself playing across half-back (and very successfully too). His high footy IQ has helped him achieve that, but he'd probably be a more valuable player were he able to play an onball role.

I reckon Gulden has a similarly high footy IQ, which I why I am confident he'll find a role at AFL level. I'm just not sure what that role will be. It is also worth noting that, while Daniel is an obvious example of a highly talented player somewhat limited by his physical stature, Gulden is quite a bit bigger than Daniel so might not have to adapt to the same extent. A couple of weeks ago I saw a list of updated heights and weights of the Swans and Giants academy players, and he was listed at 176cm. So still a little on the small side for an inside mid, but not dramatically so.

[liz]

BTW, if anyone wants to watch the GF (which started a few mins ago) but doesn't "do" Facebook, here's a link to YouTube.

LIVE AFL Sydney Mens Premier Grand Final UNSW/ES vs Sydney Uni - YouTube

Gulden (Errol) has already scored the first goal for the Bulldogs, and Reinhardt (another ex-academy boy) has just added another.

[Steve]

I don't really see the point in us going after mediocre role players who have some experience - we've topped up already with OK depth players like Clarke, Taylor, Thurlow, Brand etc.

I'd only consider bringing anyone in who is:

- around the 21-25 age range (capable of stepping up straight away but also a long-term prospect)
- fills a major area of need (ruck, inside mid, key forward)
- genuinely seen as a player who is likely to be good enough to hold a spot in a top 4 team (hoping we can be that within a few years)

I'd prefer we went really hard for some of the talented youngsters being squeezed out of good teams due to lack of opportunities. We are up against the fact most of them are attracting offers to go home, but it could be a real Josh Kennedy opportunity for a player or two to come to us and their career take off.

[Ralph Dawg]

I don't think they are especially similar. Campbell is a far smoother mover, quicker and a very classy kick. Gulden has all the attributes you look for in a larger inside midfielder (say a Luke Parker type) - he's not overly quick (though not a snail either), his kicking is OK without being great, but he gets to a huge number of contests, hunts the ball, reads the game well (which helps him get to so many contests when combined with strong endurance). He is also pretty good at applying pressure around the contest and at tackling.

I guess the question mark is how successfully he'll be able to apply those attributes at the very top level, when his natural opponents will all be much bigger, stronger and fitter than those he has played against at lower levels. I have little doubt (injury permitting) that he'll have some kind of AFL career, possibly a very good one. But there is a possibility he'll have to reinvent himself somewhat.

I saw Daniel play one U18 championships game where he was BOG by a significant margin. Were he 180cm tall, I think he'd be a gun onballer by now. His size has limited him though and he's created a role for himself playing across half-back (and very successfully too). His high footy IQ has helped him achieve that, but he'd probably be a more valuable player were he able to play an onball role.

I reckon Gulden has a similarly high footy IQ, which I why I am confident he'll find a role at AFL level. I'm just not sure what that role will be. It is also worth noting that, while Daniel is an obvious example of a highly talented player somewhat limited by his physical stature, Gulden is quite a bit bigger than Daniel so might not have to adapt to the same extent. A couple of weeks ago I saw a list of updated heights and weights of the Swans and Giants academy players, and he was listed at 176cm. So still a little on the small side for an inside mid, but not dramatically so.

Lachie Neale is 178cm and 84kg. I don't think he has outright speed either but is tough as nails, uses the ball well and is very composed. There would be not too many arguments to him being recognised as one of the competition's premier midfielders. Let's hope Gulden can follow in another "shorty's" footsteps!

[707]

Lachie Neale is 178cm and 84kg. I don't think he has outright speed either but is tough as nails, uses the ball well and is very composed. There would be not too many arguments to him being recognised as one of the competition's premier midfielders. Let's hope Gulden can follow in another "shorty's" footsteps!

Is that the same Lachie Neale who is the raging Brownlow favourite? He has a 175cm team mate Dane Zorko who goes ok as well.

Caleb Daniel is 168cm so that is very short.

Errol now listed at 176cm means he is probably still growing. I'm just hoping he's not pushing up other clubs draft boards too much, we wouldn't want to have to match another first round bid if we've used pick 3 on a player. A problem for us is the number of FA that may gain first round compo picks pushing out the end point of the, damaging for us, first round to pick 23/24. That's a lot of players need to be selected before Gulden, particularly a s half the draft pool hasn't played this year.

FA compo picks to watch with trepidation are Brad Crouch, Daniher, Zac Williams, Aiden Corr and Jeremy Cameron

[gloveski]

It’s definitely a big chance that we go into a point deficit situation . But to have 2 great quality academy prospects come along this year I think it’s important they both end up on our list no matter what the risk . If we can grab a quality young gun before Campbell and Gulden happy days for me . There’s a bit of interest in Ronke so I would t mind betting we trade him out for a draft pick just for some added points


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