2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Markwebbos]

I've been high on him since his draft year and his record when playing is pretty impressive if you look at his stats as well as his VFL form from last year.

I can't answer as to why Geelong can't fit him in but Hawthorn were the same when they had Sewell etc and chose not to hold Joey.

I just think he's got that prototype big mid look about him, like Cripps, Bont, Mundy etc who are all above 190cm.

High on Charlie, Constable?

[royboy42]

Another ruckman mentioned in relation to us this morning on AFL Trade Radio: Lloyd Meek. Hope he’s the exception to the theory of nominative determinism

Absolutely outdone yourself this time, mate.

Brilliant work.

[dejavoodoo44]

According to Port's head of football, Chris Davies, Aliir won't be going to Port. He says in a story on the AFL site, "discussions were very brief", and "it is now a closed door".

Good news from my perspective.

[707]

According to Port's head of football, Chris Davies, Aliir won't be going to Port. He says in a story on the AFL site, "discussions were very brief", and "it is now a closed door".

Good news from my perspective.

Ring ring - "Is Aliir available"? "Yes, for Lycett or Ladhams" click ........

Always thought this was one of those far fetched space fillers, now confirmed as such.

With a lack of points for this years work and 2021 touted as a deep super draft, I doubt we'll be doing anything in trade week - except watching the great Dodo "win" big, again! With the likelihood of fewer players being drafted this year, there should be multiple point bearing picks being discarded by clubs that could be picked up for our 2021 fourth rounder. I sure the club has a plan.

Last year saw a massive number of future picks change hands, be interesting to see if picks for 2021 are tightly held by clubs this year.

[KTigers]

Another ruckman mentioned in relation to us this morning on AFL Trade Radio: Lloyd Meek. Hope he’s the exception to the theory of nominative determinism

"Nominative determinism"? I've only just gotten over "cognisant".

[The Big Cat]

...... and 2021 touted as a deep super draft,

According to Matt Rendell yesterday, THIS years draft is a very good one and expects great players to be picked up even late. (he was talking in relation to North taking lots of players in the draft this year.)

[bloodspirit]

"Nominative determinism"? I've only just gotten over "cognisant".

[bloodspirit]

Unusually illuminating article about free agency: https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/832234/free-agency-set-to-begin. Apart from a decent explanation of how free agency works, it also includes:

* an insight into the way player contracts are structured with divisions for match payments, base salary, ASAs and both individual and team based performance incentives;

* the best explanation you are likely to find about how the free agency compensation formula works (still very limited - is decided by committee after formula is used as a starting point) - it's unclear but, the AFL may not have the flexibility to arbitrarily pick choose a compensation pick than I thought they had (even if they don't use it and generally try to tie picks to either the club's existing natural picks or end-of-round).

* a helpful list of upcoming key dates e.g. trade period will be from 4-12 November (I had been unclear how long it would go for - it varies from about 1-3 weeks depending on the year, although it always seems longer than it is with the long period in the middle where not much happens) and the best indication I've seen yet of when the draft will be (around about 7 December).

All in all, worth a read.

Sadly for those of us who are impatient for whatever Swans action we can find, it might be an unspectacular trade period (again!) for us. However, rationally I don't have any issue with that - just sound list management and reflects our strategy of investing in the draft and showing faith in the talent we have drafted.

[bloodspirit]

I have a question. It relates to the Treloar situation at Collingwood. How can the club ask him to go? I guess they can ask him, but if he doesn't want to, in practice how does it happen that he may feel compelled? Surely if he stuck around they couldn't afford to make him feel too unwelcome given the amount of money they have invested in him? Like others, I think it is most unfortunate that they are even trying to do this when he recently entered a really long, big dollar contract. I guess it's a market situation - supply, demand, price - and players are fluctuating commodities - so logically I can understand how the situation can come about but surely it's also a people business and it should be handled so much better than is happening?

I realise others have expressed their aversion to what's happening but what I'm curious about is if anyone has any insight into specifically how it can come about that the player feels he has to leave. Maybe the club might say, "we think it would be better if you pursued other opportunities". But then, if the player says, "no, I don't want to, I'm happy here with my mates" what other levers do the clubs pull that can lead the player to reluctantly get their manager to start looking? Anyone know anything about this sort of stuff?

Similar conversations/negotiations might have happened between the Swans and Tippett or Smooch to persuade them to finish up a bit earlier than they might have liked to, but those conversations are easier to imagine. I imagine it would be a polite and respectful explanation of where the club is going, the vision not including the player given their current fitness or form or age or whatever, expressions of great appreciation for service given, and a proposal that they still get paid some of their contract but without having to do anything, in return for their agreement to go. It's a bit harder to envisage in Treloar's case because they're not going to offer him money to do what they want him to do because the whole point is that they want to free up their cap space and also it is much harder to do it in a respectful and gracious way.

[bloodspirit]

Just found this article, which doesn't squarely answer my questions but is about the Treloar situation: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trades-2020-adam-treloar-western-bulldogs-trade-best-suitors-for-collingwood-star-essendon-carlton/news-story/9b4792bea49511619b9ec156994da789. I guess we would have had trickier/more ruthless conversations with Hannebery and Rohan too. Neither of them particularly wanted to go but we talked them into it.

[KTigers]

I have a question. It relates to the Treloar situation at Collingwood. How can the club ask him to go? I guess they can ask him, but if he doesn't want to, in practice how does it happen that he may feel compelled? Surely if he stuck around they couldn't afford to make him feel too unwelcome given the amount of money they have invested in him? Like others, I think it is most unfortunate that they are even trying to do this when he recently entered a really long, big dollar contract. I guess it's a market situation - supply, demand, price - and players are fluctuating commodities - so logically I can understand how the situation can come about but surely it's also a people business and it should be handled so much better than is happening?

I realise others have expressed their aversion to what's happening but what I'm curious about is if anyone has any insight into specifically how it can come about that the player feels he has to leave. Maybe the club might say, "we think it would be better if you pursued other opportunities". But then, if the player says, "no, I don't want to, I'm happy here with my mates" what other levers do the clubs pull that can lead the player to reluctantly get their manager to start looking? Anyone know anything about this sort of stuff?

Similar conversations/negotiations might have happened between the Swans and Tippett or Smooch to persuade them to finish up a bit earlier than they might have liked to, but those conversations are easier to imagine. I imagine it would be a polite and respectful explanation of where the club is going, the vision not including the player given their current fitness or form or age or whatever, expressions of great appreciation for service given, and a proposal that they still get paid some of their contract but without having to do anything, in return for their agreement to go. It's a bit harder to envisage in Treloar's case because they're not going to offer him money to do what they want him to do because the whole point is that they want to free up their cap space and also it is much harder to do it in a respectful and gracious way.

I think what happens when players who up until that time when they are asked to consider leaving had not actually
considered it, is they start thinking about the club in a whole different way and the comfort level they felt goes away
pretty quickly.
The Treloar situation is interesting. Collingwood must know his head is not always in a great place.
He's been there for five years, it's not like they don't know the bloke. They sign him to a new big dollar long term
contract which you'd think would make him feel secure and good, then a year or two into it they tell him and the
whole world that he won't be a very good footballer because his wife and child won't be nearby for a year. And
then the "hard to coach" thing gets thrown in for good measure.
This stuff really delves into his personal life and I just think it's really poor form. Mental health situations probably
occur a lot amongst footballers, but mostly it's not in the public arena. I know it's popular in some sections of the
community to try and talk this thing to death and it's turned into an industry, but not every case is the same, and a
lot of people would like to try and deal with their issues in a more private way.
I mean Treloar is the person with the anxiety/depression issues, maybe ask him how he would like to deal with
things. You know, try and be sensitive about sensitive situations.
It's not that hard really. Anyway, I'll guess we'll see what transpires.

[dejavoodoo44]

Ring ring - "Is Aliir available"? "Yes, for Lycett or Ladhams" click ........

Always thought this was one of those far fetched space fillers, now confirmed as such.

With a lack of points for this years work and 2021 touted as a deep super draft, I doubt we'll be doing anything in trade week - except watching the great Dodo "win" big, again! With the likelihood of fewer players being drafted this year, there should be multiple point bearing picks being discarded by clubs that could be picked up for our 2021 fourth rounder. I sure the club has a plan.

Last year saw a massive number of future picks change hands, be interesting to see if picks for 2021 are tightly held by clubs this year.

Yes, while the trading thread is probably not the place, to constantly express my generally 'bah humbug' attitude to trade rumours, this one did seem to be particularly tenuous. It ignored the fact that Port have plenty of promising young talls, and so they never really needed Aliir. Davies also expressed surprise that it became a story.

[707]

I think what happens when players who up until that time when they are asked to consider leaving had not actually
considered it, is they start thinking about the club in a whole different way and the comfort level they felt goes away
pretty quickly. The Treloar situation is interesting. Collingwood must know his head is not always in a great place.
He's been there for five years, it's not like they don't know the bloke. They sign him to a new big dollar long term
contract which you'd think would make him feel secure and good, then a year or two into it they tell him and the
whole world that he won't be a very good footballer because his wife and child won't be nearby for a year. And
then the "hard to coach" thing gets thrown in for good measure. This stuff really delves into his personal life and
I just think it's really poor form. Mental health situations probably occur a lot amongst footballers, but mostly it's
not in the public arena. I know it's popular in some sections of the community to try and talk this
thing to death and it's turned into an industry, but not every case is the same, and a lot of people would like to
try and deal with their issues in a more private way. I mean Treloar is the person with the anxiety/depression issues,
maybe ask him how he would like to deal with things. You know, try and be sensitive about sensitive situations.
It's not that hard really. Anyway, I'll guess we'll see what transpires.

Could you put this in paragraphs please, big blocks of text do my eyes and brain in :-)

Those in Melbourne, what has the verbose opinionated Fat Chins Maguire said about this on radio, has an opinion on everything else!

[Nico]

With Treloar; maybe there is a lot more to what meets the eyes and ears.

[bloodspirit]

I think what happens when players who up until that time when they are asked to consider leaving had not actually
considered it, is they start thinking about the club in a whole different way and the comfort level they felt goes away
pretty quickly. The Treloar situation is interesting. Collingwood must know his head is not always in a great place.
He's been there for five years, it's not like they don't know the bloke. They sign him to a new big dollar long term
contract which you'd think would make him feel secure and good, then a year or two into it they tell him and the
whole world that he won't be a very good footballer because his wife and child won't be nearby for a year. And
then the "hard to coach" thing gets thrown in for good measure. This stuff really delves into his personal life and
I just think it's really poor form. Mental health situations probably occur a lot amongst footballers, but mostly it's
not in the public arena. I know it's popular in some sections of the community to try and talk this
thing to death and it's turned into an industry, but not every case is the same, and a lot of people would like to
try and deal with their issues in a more private way. I mean Treloar is the person with the anxiety/depression issues,
maybe ask him how he would like to deal with things. You know, try and be sensitive about sensitive situations.
It's not that hard really. Anyway, I'll guess we'll see what transpires.

May not really answer my question but great post! You have spelled out what makes this situation more unsavoury than most. Why is it all in the public domain? Is it their way of pushing him out the door?

What are Collingwood people saying about it? Haven't heard much. Doesn't reflect well on their leadership. I wonder what it says about Buckley, who I normally feel quite positive about.