Best 22 2021

[Captain]

Rowbottom has outperformed everyone from his draft class except for Bailey Smith and probably Sam Walsh.
He has the potential to be one of the best mids in the comp.

I love Rowbottom, the boy will be a star, but seriously outperformed everyone in his draft class except Smith and Walsh??? I love a good pair of rose coloured glasses but you must have some very strong ones!

Walsh, Lukosius, Rankine, Ben King, Rozee, Max King, Smith, Duursma, Butters, Blakey .....

[stevoswan]

Will he get better? Or will he just get more of the ball? I dont think he is going to suddenly become a player who is explosive and does things that make you go wow. If that were in his arsenal he would've had those moments already, even if they were just glimpses. He hasnt, so i dont think he will. Doesnt seem to possess any of those talents that suggest he could be a freak.

There is nothing wrong with that. Still think he will be a quality mid for us, reminds me of Macrae. But while a Macrae is a good thing to have, what we need is a Bont.

As I said, time will tell. I'm not going to have an endless and pointless round in circles argument with you, ok? Move on....

[stevoswan]

I wouldnt consider Parker to be a dominant mid either. He has exceeded expectations as a pick 40 and is possibly our best player with Rampe. But he is not a top 10 player in the comp. to reach that level you have to be a pretty special player. Dont see this in Rowbottom, he will be regularly making the list of the top 30-40 players in the comp, and that in itself is an achievement.

Mills has this potential. Was the best mid in his draft as a junior which also included Oliver and Dunkley. Theres potential for him to once again be the best mid of his age group.

On Parker, he may not be a dominant mid at this late stage in his career but he has already been a Top Ten player.....or did you miss those seasons?

On Mills, we'll revisit your claim at the end of this season. I expect you are right but at this point, besides his junior pedigree, he has proven less at senior level in the midfield than Rowbottom. It's not his fault but it is true. Let's see how he goes in a senior midfield.

Now I'm done....I'll move on.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

The whole idea about judging a player on whether they are a top 10 player in the competition. It's so subjective, I'm not sure a list I drew up before round #1 would match the one I drew up after round #2. Let alone by the end of the season.

And as for the Swans not having a top #10 player, I'm not sure I'd be ready to declare that none of our young followers will become Top #10 players, until they at least deep into the 50-100 game mark.

Finally, even if they don't have a top #10, then logically there's at at least 8 other clubs in the same boat.
It's eggs and baskets time.
I'd much prefer a good overall level of talent, rather than a super expensive marquee Top#10 player that
a) Is easily negated by double teaming or other tactics, and b
b) Who when unavailable leaves a gaping whole in the team, and c
b) Hoovers up all available salary cap, thereby impeding recruitment/retention

[bloodspirit]

Certainly doesn't hurt, but I don't think we need to have a top 10 player in the comp to be successful. In 2012 we weren't especially star-studded. JPK was named on the AA interchange bench which suggests he probably wasn't considered among the top 10 players in the comp that year by the AA selection panel. Teddy Richards made the AA squad too but I don't think he was a top 10 player in the comp. Conversely, in 2014 and 2016 we had Buddy who most certainly was a top 10 player in the comp and we didn't win.

I'd rather have 5 top 30-40 players than a single top 10 player. Rowy isn't there yet but you yourself agree he could get there. Currently all of Rampe, Papley, Parker, Lloyd, Mills and Heeney would be around that mark - and that's without Buddy, who probably will never again be a top 10 player. And plenty of our other players offer hope that they could get there too. All of Blakey, Rowbottom, McDonald, Campbell, McCartin, Stephens have the potential to be that good, although of course they almost certainly won't all get there. McCartin could get there first if he can become a really dominant defender. Rowbottom would be the next closest.

Also the adjudication as being the among the best often come following the success. So, if we win premiership(s), the same players will suddenly be considered better than they were before winning the flag(s).

[TheBloods]

The whole idea about judging a player on whether they are a top 10 player in the competition. It's so subjective, I'm not sure a list I drew up before round #1 would match the one I drew up after round #2. Let alone by the end of the season.

And as for the Swans not having a top #10 player, I'm not sure I'd be ready to declare that none of our young followers will become Top #10 players, until they at least deep into the 50-100 game mark.

Finally, even if they don't have a top #10, then logically there's at at least 8 other clubs in the same boat.
It's eggs and baskets time.
I'd much prefer a good overall level of talent, rather than a super expensive marquee Top#10 player that
a) Is easily negated by double teaming or other tactics, and b
b) Who when unavailable leaves a gaping whole in the team, and c
b) Hoovers up all available salary cap, thereby impeding recruitment/retention

Please refer me to the last premiership team without a top 10 player. Good and well to say you want a good even team but you've gotta have one super talent at least or you will get found out.

[bloodspirit]

It seems we're thinking alike, RnR. Of our youngsters, I'd say McDonald has the greatest chance of being a top 10 player one day, followed by Blakey (with McDonald being shorter odds than the presently mercurial Blakey).

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Please refer me to the last premiership team without a top 10 player.

2016 Western Bulldogs. Bontempelli may have become a top 10 players since but he wasn't then.

[TheBloods]

It seems we're thinking alike, RnR. Of our youngsters, I'd say McDonald has the greatest chance of being a top 10 player one day, followed by Blakey (with McDonald being shorter odds than the presently mercurial Blakey).

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2016 Western Bulldogs. Bontempelli may have become a top 10 players since but he wasn't then.

Bontempelli was always special even as a youngster.

I see you have named McDonald and Blakey as likely types, and not RB. So im stumped as to why its such a puzzling statement - that he wont be one of the very best in the comp - to make. Its not as if he is the perfect player. He is not without fault and so this universal praise for him is confusing. I have seen genuine stars like Joey and Buddy criticised and doubted, but Rowbottom of all players is above it ?

[bloodspirit]

I agree with you that Rowbottom probably will never be a top 10 player (although it's possible) and that if he makes the top 30-40 that's still very good. I put Mills in a similar category, albeit he is further developed than Rowbottom. I guess the difference between us is that I rate that as a really massive and excellent achievement whereas your tone suggests you're less excited about it. Also I don't think we absolutely need to have top 10 talents in the team to achieve success and you appear to differ.

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To that I'd add that Blakey is a special talent (and so is Heeney) but they are not top 10 players in the comp yet. I'd rate Rowbottom in front of Blakey as things stand right now - I just think that Blakey has the potential to be a greater player - who knows whether he'll realise that potential.

[TheBloods]

I agree with you that Rowbottom probably will never be a top 10 player (although it's possible) and that if he makes the top 30-40 that's still very good. I put Mills in a similar category, albeit he is further developed than Rowbottom. I guess the difference between us is that I rate that as a really massive and excellent achievement whereas your tone suggests you're less excited about it. Also I don't think we absolutely need to have top 10 talents in the team to achieve success and you appear to differ.

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To that I'd add that Blakey is a special talent (and so is Heeney) but they are not top 10 players in the comp yet. I'd rate Rowbottom in front of Blakey as things stand right now - I just think that Blakey has the potential to be a greater player - who knows whether he'll realise that potential.

I understand. But you have read my tone wrong. I would be rapt if Rowbottom became a top 30/40 player in the comp. That is an achievement that would put him comfortably among greats of SMFC/Sydney Swans, like Kirk & Jude, Micky O, Kieren Jack, Macca, Parker etc. I have been strong that Rowbottom has this kind of potential from day dot.

However I stand by the importance of having at least one special talent in your side, especially on the ball. Our 2005 side had this with Goodsey. Our grand final sides of the last decade had this with Buddy and Joey. My original comment was that Mills could be this player for us, while I dont think Rowbottom will be. & that was somehow misconstrued as me criticising him. Never the case. I rate the kid. He reminds me of Macrae.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Please refer me to the last premiership team without a top 10 player. Good and well to say you want a good even team but you've gotta have one super talent at least or you will get found out.

OK leaving aside the imponderables that we can't know whether any current Swan player will be a top #10 when the next premiership occurs.

Just let me know how the top #10 players is to be defined and I'll be happy to give it a crack (it is off season after all)

Highest Disposals? / Supercoach points? / Brownlow votes? for the premiership season in question - or given that we're in the offseason, perhaps the previous season. What do you prefer?

[bloodspirit]

Just let me know how the top #10 players is to be defined and I'll be happy to give it a crack. Highest Disposals / Supercoach points / Brownlow votes for the premiership season in question - or given that we're in the offseason, perhaps the previous season. What do you prefer?

If you want some kind of an objective measure, I would suggest something like AFLCA votes (including finals votes with an extra weighting - but averaged so as not to disadvantage players who don't play finals) spread over a few seasons (e.g. 3 seasons so it doesn't get too out of date). So one top 10 season is not enough to make you a top 10 player in the comp.

You'd get some variation but there are a number of players that pretty much everyone would agree are top 10 in the comp. Currently: Dusty, Nat Fyfe, Bontempelli, Danger, Neale. Then it gets a bit trickier - NicNat? (his best is top 10 but has he been on the park enough - similar story for Buddy but with more recent form), Andrews, Pendlebury, Hawkins?, Macrae, Gawn, Cripps, Mitchell etc. etc.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

[QUOTE=bloodspirit;809925]I agree with you that Rowbottom probably will never be a top 10 player (although it's possible) - - - Updated - - -

Never is a long time, and the whole top #10 thing is a bit nebulous.
Luke Parker is being characterised as not being top #10 by some, but he certainly has been, #7 for total disposals and #2 for Brownlow votes in 2016 for example.
So like bloodspirit I for one am certainly not going to say Rowbottom is incapable of emulating Lukes performance in the future.

[Ludwig]

I have long since reserved my place on the bandwagon. But watching these highlights was really cheering anyway!

Thank you. Beautiful. I know it's not footy related but I appreciated it and wouldn't have encountered it otherwise.

Rowbottom has done very well for himself in his first 2 years. It's way to early to put a cap on what he can do.

It's more important to have a dominant midfield than a dominant midfielder. The two are not synonymous. It's better not to be reliant on any one player for the team's fortunes. If that dominant player gets injured, then it could seriously set back the team, as it has been with the loss of Franklin over the past 2 seasons.

Azam Al was beautiful. It's nice to discover new music from time to time. I lived in Portugal for 2 years and disliked their national music called Fado. Some years later I totally changed my mind when by chance I heard Mariza on the radio in Sydney. Mariza - Chuva (Concerto em Lisboa) - YouTube
Ó gente da minha terra - YouTube

On Parker, he may not be a dominant mid at this late stage in his career but he has already been a Top Ten player.....or did you miss those seasons?

I don't know why everyone thinks Parker is so old. If you heard that Parker is just 7 months older than Tom Mitchell, you might be shocked. But it's true. Yet no one thinks of Tom Mitchell as old.

[bloodspirit]

Azam Al was beautiful. It's nice to discover new music from time to time. I lived in Portugal for 2 years and disliked their national music called Fado. Some years later I totally changed my mind when by chance I heard Mariza on the radio in Sydney. Mariza - Chuva (Concerto em Lisboa) - YouTube
Ó gente da minha terra - YouTube

Thanks Ludwig. I'm really enjoying these tips, even if they're not footy. To return the favour in the same vein, I recommend this Armenian folk classic, arranged by the famous Armenian composer, Komitas. I'm not sure who is responsible for this rendition but it's pretty swoonworthy: Chinar Es (Tall as the Poplar Tree) - YouTube.

To include something football related and also kinda swoonworthy, I'm just rewatching some 2019 NEAFL matches, and the class of Rowbottom and JMac really stand out. McInerney is really a beautiful kick, quick as, has abundant confidence and sometimes a Pendlebury-esque amount of time with the ball.